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Uji
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Know-Nothingism

Postby Uji » 2008 Aug 09 13:14


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nudgewink
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Re: Know-Nothingism

Postby nudgewink » 2008 Aug 09 14:26


10thFO
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Re: Know-Nothingism

Postby 10thFO » 2008 Aug 09 16:30

Wow another slight at GW Bush by a poster on this forum, whodathunkit in a post where UJI asked what people thought of the articles basis, "KnowNothingism". Guess it didn't get to far on this board to prove him right now did it Uji.

I would say he is right with his article. If you can't sell it in a thirty second ad, it has a snowballs chance in hell in catching on in this country anymore. The preferred newspaper for choice for most americans for the last 20 years was the USA Today, of course newspapers are only good for birdcages now, but USA Today was written in the aspect that it would resemble a TV Newscast. No really hardhitting stories. All the front pages were for short catchy ones, and then if you liked it, you may or may not find more on the inside pages. It was revolutionary for the newspaper business because they realized that most americans didn't have time to sit down and cipher through the entire paper anymore, they were competing against television, ie' it was no longer journalism, it was entertainment. Obviously newspapers have failed badly, and the American publics attention span get's shorter and shorter.

Politicians play for the sound bite. They don't offer up plans of substance, because they know that would get them bogged down, while their competition, brought out a mudslinging campaign against them. Obama's pledge not to play politics as usual was brilliant because one, he did it in the beginning, two, he knew that in the end to win he will/would have to get dirty, but if he flip flops on an issue as small as that, much less more important ones that are supposed to say what and who he is about, either his followers will forget or forgive him, because most Americans have the atttention span of a 5th grader with a bad case of ADD.

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fangz1956
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Re: Know-Nothingism

Postby fangz1956 » 2008 Aug 09 17:51

What gets a Know-nothing elected? Money and power

What keeps a Know-nothing in office? Money and power

The money and power in these cases do not necessarily belong to the Know-nothing him/herself, but rather to family connections, corporate lobbyists, and other special interest groups. The Know-nothing is merely a puppet whose strings are manipulated by "the man behind the curtain". Let's think about this for just a hot minute. We live in a nation where all of the major media outlets are controlled by approximately 5 people.........control of news and information. We live in a nation where we have a central bank..........a private one, at that.............control of cash flow and all money. We live in a nation where the group representing the major credit card companies had the power to rewrite the bankruptcy laws....................legally enforced poverty with no chance of a way out. We live in a nation where labor unions have been busted and we are returning to pre-Matewan days in the working world...............I owe my soul to the company store! We live in a nation where prisons are a lucrative and thriving business................lots of them filled with non-violent drug offenders.........................profitable slave labor force.

In the midst of all of this, one might ask where is the lobby that really represents John/Jane Q. Taxpayer? John and Jane ARE their own best lobbying group but alas, they seem to have forgotten all about that. They have been lulled by the media mirage of the American Dream and have fallen into the trap of material acquisition.

The way I see it: What we have in the White House and in Congress are the equivalent holographic images (OZ......the Great and Powerful) and the real winner is "the man behind the curtain". If the man pays enough money to the puppets, then he continues to run the show.......................no questions asked because he also control which questions can be asked. The puppets profit to a point and only materially. We must remember that which a man has to sell in order to keep his "public" office.......................his integrity, morality, compassion, and independent thought processes.


:2cent:
Ever looked at someone and thought "the wheel is turning but the hamster is dead"?

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Coondog
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Re: Know-Nothingism

Postby Coondog » 2008 Aug 11 10:39

Last edited by Coondog on 2008 Aug 11 11:04, edited 1 time in total.

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Uji
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Re: Know-Nothingism

Postby Uji » 2008 Aug 11 10:52

I'm with you, CoonDog.

But what's with the whole media thing? I mean, why is the TV on constantly in most houses? Easy to imagine empty lives, no active mental life, etc. But is that it? We see the same apparent mindlessness in the music we listen to, the movies we watch, the books that fewer and fewer of us are reading...

Who's the chicken and who's the egg here? Know what I mean? Are we driving the media or the other way around? If it's a feedback loop, how do you stop it.

Are the pols just "victims" of the whole thing like the rest of us? If we're all victims, who/what is the victimizer?

Beats me.

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Wise One
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Re: Know-Nothingism

Postby Wise One » 2008 Aug 11 11:00

"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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fangz1956
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Re: Know-Nothingism

Postby fangz1956 » 2008 Aug 11 11:44

Ever looked at someone and thought "the wheel is turning but the hamster is dead"?

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Amy Probenski
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Re: Know-Nothingism

Postby Amy Probenski » 2008 Aug 11 15:51


10thFO
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Re: Know-Nothingism

Postby 10thFO » 2008 Aug 11 16:33

Wise One, I somehow fail to see how this Russian / Georgia escalation/Russian invasion is Bush's failure? He was being interviewed by freaking Bob Costas, a sports reporter, at an Olympic event about the escalation. He told Costas that "he told Putin, that he strongly discouraged the attack, as did the administration". What else did you think he was going to say? Somehow I think he could have performed live open heart surgery to save Costas and you would have found something wrong with it. "dance13"

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Wise One
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Re: Know-Nothingism

Postby Wise One » 2008 Aug 11 16:49

Here's my opinion on why Bush's many mistakes constitute a failure in this instance.

By diverting US resources and focus from genuinely important problems needing our constant attention, he has handed Putin a virtual guarantee that Russia is free to make whatever mischief it likes.

Putin can act in confidence that the United States will respond with nothing more than a little whining by Bush, between gymnastics and swimming events at the Olympics.

Bush has crippled the United States against substantive influence when credible action is required. His preference is wasting lives, power, and money on non-problems, rather than preserving adequate resources and credible power for vigorous and effective application to real problems when required.

Putin will get away with it, and it is partly Bush's fault for pursuing his folly in Iraq and withdrawing from the world of diplomacy for most of his two terms.

The result is a weaker Georgia, a weaker Europe, a weaker western alliance, and more difficulties with Russia in the future.

:usa2: Voters choosing Bush Republicans because they want "security" and "freedom" will get neither. :usa2:
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Coondog
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Re: Know-Nothingism

Postby Coondog » 2008 Aug 11 17:01

Ah....there it is again. Sports personality interviews President at a supposedly non-political sporting event over foreign relations policy and broadcast when? Between water polo and ultimate thumb wrestling?

Who has lower approval ratings? Bush or Costas?

I have no problem with Bush performing live open heart surgery on Costas......only......mixed feelings over 'successful' live open heart surgery.

Bush's problem with taking a credible stance with Russia is he has no credibility......and no higher ground from which to pontificate. How do you argue with preemptive first strikes when you invented the concept.

Costas may not have much clout, either!

Coondog :blob1:

Maybe we're just victimizing ourselves

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fangz1956
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Re: Know-Nothingism

Postby fangz1956 » 2008 Aug 11 17:32

Just for the record.....I knew the members of both groups before I posed my questions. Personally speaking, I don't buy 100% either what my friends and colleagues are selling or how these groups represent themselves to the general public. There is a tremendous amount of money, power, and influence between the two and that can always swing in the wrong direction.

:2cent:
Ever looked at someone and thought "the wheel is turning but the hamster is dead"?

10thFO
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Re: Know-Nothingism

Postby 10thFO » 2008 Aug 11 19:35

What is the point of being in the United Nations, if they don't ever do a damn thing? The way this started off, it shouldn't have been much to it. It remains to be seen what will happen. But if the U.N. had any resolve whatsoever, they could make more than idle sanctions and threats. They never follow through with anything.

I didn't agree with the invasion because of WMD, but I agreed with the premise that the U.N. had done shit for over 10 years and still would do nothing soon. I realize you think it is wasted lives, and a Non'issue, but well, I don't totally agree with your assessment.

Coondog, please, Bush didn't invent Preemptive first strikes. If anything Clinton did when he bombed the apirin factory in Iraq. But that's not fair either. He didn't invent it either. Just because you don't like Bush doesn't mean you have to jump on the proverbial bandwagon with bashing him.

How about you all go back and look at the original post in this thread? Seems we can't keep it on topic can we? And we wonder why it always resorts in name calling.

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Wise One
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Re: Know-Nothingism

Postby Wise One » 2008 Aug 12 09:22

"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Coondog
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Re: Know-Nothingism

Postby Coondog » 2008 Aug 12 16:09


10thFO
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Re: Know-Nothingism

Postby 10thFO » 2008 Aug 12 17:04

Wise One the U.N. is so ineffective, it is ridiculous, why it still stands to this day is rather disheartening. Who is served by it? Their issues with the Food program is abysmal, and no other countries abide by their desires or wishes. It is a paper puppet and that's all it is. Go back and look at their aid record in Somalia. They couldn't do crap without the U.S.'s intervention. Then when the Pakistani's got wiped out, they decided to go on a manhunt. Rest is history, and so has their organization after that.

Coondog, we're all entitled to our opinions, but the fact of the matter is, that Iraq had been warned and rewarned and overwarned since we left the Gulf region after 1991. So there is a quite a bit of difference between your theory of invading a soveriegn nation, just because they are democrat of whatever. The difference is tatamount to this conversation, but unless you are older than 36 I would imagine you would have a hard time understanding that, unless you were/are a scholar of American/Middle East history.

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Wise One
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Re: Know-Nothingism

Postby Wise One » 2008 Aug 13 00:39

"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Uji
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Re: Know-Nothingism

Postby Uji » 2008 Aug 13 10:12

Right-on, WiseOne.

We only assume that waste, inefficiency, and messiness are evidence of failure when we are dealing with something we don't like for some other reason. Everything we humans do is wasteful, inefficient, and messy. When we like the thing that's doing it, we just call it "collateral damage", or "the cost of doing business", etc. When applied to something we don't like for some other reason, we call it an evidence of uselessness and failure.

The war in Iraq is wasteful, inefficient, messy, and has failed to accomplish even the limited goals that were put forth for it (eliminate WMDs, make us safer from Terrorists, etc.). Yet, 10thFO, I don't hear you saying that it was useless, and why hadn't it been done away with before now, etc.

Come on, what's fair for the goose is fair for the gander...

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Coondog
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Re: Know-Nothingism

Postby Coondog » 2008 Aug 13 12:11



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