Smokers Score

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Smokers Score

Postby resigned » 2008 Jan 10 18:46

Here is an article on how States are dealing with smoking in each State. It gives a State by State report on how the States are providing or not providing adequate smoke free laws. It's interesting to see that Virginia is one of the States that receives a F on the report.http://health.msn.com/health-topics/addiction/articlepage.aspx?cp-documentid=100187394&GT1=10815

RubyRed

Re: Smokers Score

Postby RubyRed » 2008 Jan 10 20:28

I work in a state run hospital. Starting this past Oct. all state facilities/hospitals, etc. went smoke free. NO tobacco products are supposed to be on the premises. Employees who smoke, must take their break to get in their cars, drive completely off the premises in order to light up. There was a lot of help put into play for state employees who wished to quit, to be able to (such as making sure prescription meds were covered by our insurance, helping with cost of nicotine gum or patches). Thankfully, I am not a smoker. When I lived in Mass. they passed a law that banned smoking in all public place including bars, as a non-smoker it was nice to be able to go somewhere and not have to come home and take a shower because you reek of cigarette smoke.

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Wise One
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Re: Smokers Score

Postby Wise One » 2008 Jan 10 21:35

Mark Twain wrote: Quitting smoking is easy. I've done it a thousand times.
:laugho:
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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fangz1956
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Re: Smokers Score

Postby fangz1956 » 2008 Jan 11 07:34

Coffee and cigarettes....................my only vices in life. I won't engage in debate here as I am tired of being treated like a second class citizen because I choose to smoke. That's the bottom line.


:wink:
Ever looked at someone and thought "the wheel is turning but the hamster is dead"?

resigned

Re: Smokers Score

Postby resigned » 2008 Jan 11 08:25

I really do understand the problem with trying to quit smoking. My Dad smoked for years and it probably contributed to his death. My son in law smokes and really has struggled to try and quit. Especially now that he and my daughter have a baby and another one on the way. He has used the patch and it never would stick because he owns his own concrete business and sweats alot while working. Everyone of his crew smokes so that is difficult. When I was growing up cigarettes were promoted almost as a good thing on TV.

I have heard other smokers say they also feel like second class citizens. That has to be tough. I do know that I don't go into any eating place that is small here in VA. because even though they have a section for non smokers the smoke always gets to me - I have asthma and now with these blood clots in my lungs I definitely stay away not only from smoke, but anyone's house who has animals as that sets me off also. My daughter who is going to have a baby in April has a cat and two dogs and I told her that God willing and my body has absorbed all these blood clots I would be able to help her for short periods of time but would stay at an Aunt's house down the road as I can't be around the animals, especially for long periods of time. And even though her husband smokes outside the smoke clings to him when he comes back inside and sets me off. Guess I will take some of those respirator masks up to wear while in their house.

Now coffee is good but now that I have the lung problem and am on cumiden, I have to drink decaff.

RubyRed

Re: Smokers Score

Postby RubyRed » 2008 Jan 11 09:10

My mother was a very heavy smoker. I can always remember her saying (before the prices went up), "I'm gonna quit when they get to a dollar a pack", that went up to "$2.00 a pack". My mother passed away at the young age of 61. She was sitting on the sofa, talking with my brother in the early hours of the morning. She was reaching over the borrow his lighter to light her cigarette when she collapsed. The majority of my siblings smoke, and I have when I was extremely young (still in high school). Luckily, I did not smoke enough to become addicted and decided at that young age that smoking was not for me. Neither me nor my husband smoke. When my son who is now 13, was young, about 2 or 3, my sister who does smoke, babysat for me while I worked. My son is the only kid I have ever known who at the age of 3, had a pack a day imaginary habit. The three of us went of vacation to VA Beach and were on a dolphin sighting cruise. There was my three year old child acting like he was smoking a cigarette on the boat. It would drive me insane because I felt like his father and I should have the biggest impact on him since he was around us more, and we do not smoke. My sibling that smoke do not like to come to my house very much because I do not let them smoke in the house. I do not want to smell it for days after they leave.

harleygrl35

Re: Smokers Score

Postby harleygrl35 » 2008 Jan 11 11:57

fangz1956 wrote:Coffee and cigarettes....................my only vices in life. I won't engage in debate here as I am tired of being treated like a second class citizen because I choose to smoke. That's the bottom line.


:wink:


As a coffee and cigarrette addict, I'm feelin' ya on this one. I understand how disgusting my habit is, I don't need anyone to tell me how badly I stink, what my lung's look like, etc. I am fully aware of any consequences my choices may bring about. So, I guess since the government has done such a shitty job of solving the rampant drug problem in our country, (as in, they have to make sure the cartel is still up and running, so any profit's aren't cut), they figure they should move on to infringing on my rights.

:roll: :roll:

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Sweetness 'n Light
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Re: Smokers Score

Postby Sweetness 'n Light » 2008 Jan 11 12:31

I really do agree with all you about smoking and I think its ridiculous how the hollierthanthou liberals are all over us about smoking that is like kind of like the constitutal right to have pistols. Who do they think they are? If they don't like smoking then they should just go somewhere else not make me go somewhere else, cause its free in the United States of America to do things we been doing for hundreds of years and cause Virginia was founded I think on tobacco so its really one of the most important things maybe.

I been smoking since I was 14 it it hasn't hurt me at all and everybody knows its sophiscated cause all the big stars do it in the movies so why would everybody get so upset? All that stuff about it makes you die is just scaredy screaming like Al Gore and global warming stupid stuff to scare us so he can have all the power like the men on the radio say huh? So sometimes when people tell me to stop in restaurants if I'm feeling fisty then I just blow it in their face that teaches them sometimes huh? Anyway mostly I don't do that but you know how I feel I bet.

When I was in that hospital type place last year then they wouldnt let us smoke except outside and I hated that cause sometimes it was too hot or too cold. They shouldnt do that cause if they worry about smoking being bad then that's nothing compared to pneumonia from going outside, huh?

And just last month when I had my drivers test and they failed me cause of a little mistake, I sometimes think the supervisor who gave me the test had prejudice against smoking cause he glared at me when I was driving and lit up a cigarette cause he made me real nervous and I think thats maybe why he just caused me to kill that cat huh?

Well, I been working hard on practicing for that drivers test again. They still won't tell me when I can take it but I think the secretary said that maybe in a month or so, and this time she says a different supervisor, the one that is the boss of the supervisor that failed me might give the test and maybe he will be more fairer. Then I can finally get my drivers license back but they should make all those illegal aileens and terrorists stop driving by taking away their licenses which is really stupid when they wont' even give one to a redblooded American citizen like me.

- Love and kisses to all -

harleygrl35

Re: Smokers Score

Postby harleygrl35 » 2008 Jan 11 14:57

Sweetness? Are you just blowing smoke up my butt or what?

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Sweetness 'n Light
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Re: Smokers Score

Postby Sweetness 'n Light » 2008 Jan 11 15:36

Ha ha ha, harleygirl thats a funny one I get it. You post very nice and interesting stuff on this forum here and sometimes you make me giggle too, huh?

-Love and Kisses to all-

Renegade Mom

Re: Smokers Score

Postby Renegade Mom » 2008 Jan 11 21:16

Yeah, its hard to change your ways, and yes, government legislation over lifestyle issues is hard to take and often over-reaching, but its time to grow up, face facts and take responsibility. The excuse that 'its always been that way' doesn't cut it. There are mountains of ideas that have had to be abandoned as we've furthered our understanding and knowledge of the issues. Take 2 minutes and you can come up with a substantial list of outdated ideas and behaviors.

While a person should be treated with patience and respect if they are addicted to nicotine (a fabulously successful corporate strategy of the tobacco industry), 2nd hand smoke is a PROVEN THREAT to the health of those around smokers - even outside (within close proximity). If someone wants to stink, have stained teeth and fingers, speak in a raspy voice, barely be able to climb a flight of stairs without panting, wrinkle up their facial skin, and put themselves at risk for serious and deadly diseases (read: not fun) - have at it, its your choice and your right! But you don't have the right to spread the consequences of your poor choices on the people around you! This is just like the logic that makes drinking and driving illegal and puts restrictions on the use of guns (like within neighborhoods).

And to make matters worse, some of the posters here that are whining about their right to smoke have also complained on this forum about health care issues. This is where the rubber meets the road. Take responsibility for your choices in how you care for your body. As awful as the insurance companies are, and as backward and inept as our government is about decent health care for the American people, we are ultimately responsible for much (not all, of course) of what ails us. How dare anyone cry about their emphsyema (sp.) or lung cancer and how hard and bad it is for them, after they have belligerently smoked for 40 years? Why is it such a mystery as to why we suffer and are in poor health at age 60 after years upon years of abusing our bodies and health with smoking, crappy food, alcohol and inactivity? This is not the governments fault or responsibility, ... it is ours.

There is a 'silver bullet' for heart disease, diabetes, obesity and many cancers,... its YOUR LIFESTYLE. We need to stop waiting for some magic answer, stop blaming outside forces (ie the government, our co-workers or advertising), and take charge of our own lives and health. This is truly being a rebel and independent. Stop acting like sheep with no leadership abilities of your own. Be a patriotic American - make yourself strong, healthy, resilient and productive.

And if you really want to take issue with how the government invades of personal rights, how about taking a look at the laws that legislate what consenting adults can do in their own homes, or the lack of rights that stable families are denied because they don't have the 'proper' combination of sex organs.(BTW, I'm married in a traditional family relationship). Or even better, let's look at the erosion of the Constitution and the rule of law that's occurred since the fear-mongers hoodwinked us after 9/11 (read: the Patriot Act).

So, while I care about treating people with respect for their smoking choices, smokers also need to respect that they are harmful polluters of other people's air. I have no problem with the behavior of most of the smokers I know because they give that respect to others and show consideration for those in their smoking proximity. I have been a smoker for 2 periods of time in my life (both 2-3 years) and don't subscribe to any 'holier than thou' attitudes... But let's be real...

resigned

Re: Smokers Score

Postby resigned » 2008 Jan 11 22:40

Very good posting Renegade Mom - really enjoyed reading it. It's also like people wanting to ride motorcycles without helmets. They don't begin to understand that when they have a severe tramatic brain injury that when they are in re-hab and their insurance runs out or they don't have any that the government pays the costs as with diseases caused by smoking. The person smoking is not the only one affected but so are those around them and society.

"Tobacco use is the second leading cause of death in the U.S., and is the largest preventable cause of death. Over 400,000 people die prematurely each year due to tobacco related illnesses.2 In fact, tobacco use results in more deaths each year in the U.S. than AIDS, alcohol, cocaine, heroin, homicide, suicide, motor vehicle crashes, and fires combined.3 The leading
causes of smoking-attributable death in the U.S. are lung cancer (an average of 123,000 deaths annually) and ischemic heart disease (an average 98,000 deaths annually)."

The above was taken from the following:
4 “Smoking Attributable Mortality and Years of Potential Lost Life — United States,
1984" Mortality and Morbidity Weekly Report, Vol. 46, no. 20, May 23, 1997, p. 449.

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Re: Smokers Score

Postby Wise One » 2008 Jan 11 23:13

:clap: SUPER postings, Renegade Mom and Beckonwood. :clap:

Not usually at a loss for words, this time I defer totally to you ... nothing I say can improve on your words.
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Re: Smokers Score

Postby fangz1956 » 2008 Jan 12 00:53

Even supporters of smoking bans, such as longtime anti-smoking activist Michael Siegel, faulted Carmona for gilding the lily (blackening the lung?) by saying things such as, "There is NO risk-free level of secondhand smoke exposure." This position contradicts the basic toxicological principle that the dose makes the poison. Since it's hard to measure even the health consequences of heavy, long-term exposure to secondhand smoke, how could one possibly demonstrate an effect from, say, a few molecules? "No risk-free level" is an article of faith, not a scientific statement.



You can read the entire article from which this quote is taken at http://www.reason.com/news/show/36723.html

Now, with that being said there is this. If the driving force behind the anti-smoking gang is to force smokers to quit for the health of everyone (or maybe it is just the perceived health benefits of the non-smokers) I must say you are essentially flogging a dead horse. Anyone with experience in working with addicted people knows that no meaningful recovery from any substance can be acheived without the absolute willingness and committment of the addict. No amount of force or coercion from outside forces produces any positive change in the long run. The reason for for the lifestyle change MUST come from the person himself. Have the laundry list of drug and alcohol laws on the books substanially diminished the rate of drug addiction and alcoholism? Not by a long shot. They have only succeeded in criminalizing a large segment of people who are not true criminals. So, in my view the anti-smoking folks are seeking to criminalize a large segment of the population known as smokers. Why thank you for being so dang neighborly!

Oh yeah.......and let's not forget that the Number One cause of preventable death in the is country is OBESITY. and running a close third to tobacco is DEATH BY DOCTORS. Thanks but I'll keep my smokes for now.


:2cent:
Ever looked at someone and thought "the wheel is turning but the hamster is dead"?

Charles

Re: Smokers Score

Postby Charles » 2008 Jan 12 01:14

I'll support a smoking ban when they ban alcohol(or anything else that is deemed unhealthy). I smoke and I know what it does to my body and the effects it has on my health. Personally I have more of a problem with some one who soaks there liver in alcohol on a daily basis and doesn't have a problem sharing the road with me.

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Re: Smokers Score

Postby fangz1956 » 2008 Jan 12 03:10

How very well said, Charles.

I have never seen anybody maimed or killed as the result of smoking while driving..........but have seen more than enough fatalties and maimings from drinking and driving.

:wink:
Ever looked at someone and thought "the wheel is turning but the hamster is dead"?

resigned

Re: Smokers Score

Postby resigned » 2008 Jan 12 06:51

Good Points both of you on driving while drunk. I fully understand these dangers. But my originial posting was on smoking. I also understand how difficult it can be to quit. I believe I posted that here earlier. I fully understand how those who smoke feel as if they are being ganged upon. I hear that from my son in law and I fully understand that unless a person wants to quit it's difficult to do so.

I believe the cigarette companies have a burden to share in the smoking problem. But just like as Charles pointed out I don't want to share the road with a drinker I also don't want to share the space with someone who smokes. I know how my body reacts to the smoke. I start having problems breathing and now that I have the problem with pulmonary embolism its even more difficult for me to breath.

I do know someone though who was killed while trying to light a cigarette.....he was my husband's boss. He was looking down to pull the lighter out so he could light his cigarette and crossed the middle line in the road and drove right into a Semi - truck. He was killed instantly. But then the same could be said for those using cell phones. I just read that one of the leading causes auto accidents by young people is using cell phones and some states are coming up with laws on that.

I read that when states raise the tax on cigarettes that the rate of smoking goes down. Can't remember where I read that though.

Renegade Mom

Re: Smokers Score

Postby Renegade Mom » 2008 Jan 12 08:03

Fangz1956 said: " Anyone with experience in working with addicted people knows that no meaningful recovery from any substance can be acheived without the absolute willingness and committment of the addict. No amount of force or coercion from outside forces produces any positive change in the long run. The reason for for the lifestyle change MUST come from the person himself."

Yes, very true. And when the negatives outweigh the positives for a behavior, we eventually become more motivated to change. Humans are quite stubborn and often require great pain and suffering to change their ways. When enough people believe in an idea they begin to spread that idea (memes) through a variety of ways. At this point, society has come to believe that smoking is unhealthy and undesirable (cigarette waste is also an environmental problem). As such, society is consciously increasing the negative consequences (taxes and restriction on ease of use in public settings) and decreasing the positive (social approval). This is elementary behavior management at work. The negatives have been increasing quite gradually over the years and the rates of smoking have gone down to the overall benefit of our country and society.

Did you know that it is harder to 'cure' women of their addiction to being abused in violent relationships than it is to cure someone of a drug addiction? The success rate is the LOWEST of any 'addiction'. Does that mean we stop helping or caring? Does that mean we give up on them and say it's OK to be in an abusive marriage? Hell, that was what was accepted as fine and dandy until 20-30 years ago. Its their right to be abused. And those kids that are learning how to be an abuser or abused when they grow up? ... oh well, its a family matter not a societal health issue? Bullocks!

When the smoking bans hit San Francisco in '98 or '99 people thought it would be such a hardship. And when NYC adopted it a couple of years ago, people were screaming that it would kill their business. And you know what? Its not true. There has been NO damaging effect on the restaurant/bar economy as was predicted. Smokers bitch and moan, yes, but new social patterns have emerged and everyone has adapted just fine. Waaa waaa.

The idea that smokers are being "criminalized" is ridiculous to me and overly-dramatic. You can start a club! It can join the ex-kid spankers, the ex-wife-beaters, the ex-dog-fighters and the ex-boozers-who-drive - folks who often bemoan that their rights to do-what-they-want have been violated. This is annoying to me as we have some legitimate problems concerning our legal system and drug laws. Let's look at mandatory minimums and the number of decent, productive citizens that are in jail because of marijuana. At one time in Virginia it was an offense to NOT grow marijuana if you were a farmer because of all its many benefits as a plant. But the plastic industry put an end to that in the early 20h century. Times change and ideas about things change. Our gun laws in VA are amazing in comparison to states like NJ and NY. You can get in more trouble for selling a bag of herb in VA than shooting someone in the leg. Hmmm...

I personally do not agree with legislating more than the minimum of lifestyle choices. However, with the staggering amount money that the tobacco companies make in profit, and that they spend in lobbying, I do not accept that smoking is being unfairly targeted by more than a small minority. Tobacco and smokers are doing just fine poisoning themselves, and our kids, while the tobacco company stockholders rake in their dividends. The 'attack' on smokers is an illusion - no more than a slight re-balancing of the prevailing societal pressures. It is human nature to exaggerate feelings of being slighted or criticized, and that's what I think the complaints are really rooted in - not objectivity. 'nuff said.

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fangz1956
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Re: Smokers Score

Postby fangz1956 » 2008 Jan 12 13:01

I do not think the government has any right to legislate lifestyle choices........period. Caring is one thing but using government force to legislate away choice is another. Each of us came into this world with free will. I think there are far more serious issues facing society than second-hand smoke..............domestic violence and child abuse leading the pack.
Everyone bemoans and wails about the profits of Big Tobacco........but nobody gets too vocal about the exorbitant profits of Big Pharma, or the CEO's that wreck companies and devastate employee pensions and walk away with millions of dollars in their pockets. Hmmm......how many people has Big Pharma addicted and killed in their rush to market new and approved pain killers and other drugs such as Oxycontin, Vioxx and the rest? All in the name of the Almighty Dollar!
And before you castigate me for feeling attacked by the non-smoking gang......walk a mile in my shoes. As for the cigarette litter.......created by the anti-smoking gang as ashtrays have been removed from cars and public places thanks to them.


:2cent:
Ever looked at someone and thought "the wheel is turning but the hamster is dead"?

Renegade Mom

Re: Smokers Score

Postby Renegade Mom » 2008 Jan 12 14:00

Who doesn't get too vocal about the profits of Big Pharma, the all those piggish CEO's? No one in my world holds tobacco companies to a higher standard than the others you mention. I certainly don't. I have consciously chosen a life and lifestyle that has given me a greater chance of avoiding falling into their clutches. The people I associate with are quite vocal on all these issues. I agree that there are far more dangerous and pressing issues than smoking, and that smokers are not evil villains - nor should be treated as such. That does not excuse or justify the public health problem of smoking. Its all wrong - and justifying one wrong with another holds no credibility for me.

You take the conversation back to personal responsibility by highlighting the Big Pharma vultures ( and their pals the insurance industry). What happens after we've been slaves to the nicotine purveyors for years and years? We are handed off to the medical/pharma/insurance folks and placed in their net of misery. This is an expected result! Yes, we are born with free will and that also means that we take responsibility for our actions. Freedom isn't free. We have the ability to enormously reduce our risk of being ripped off and killed off by all these corporate vampires by being savvy leaders of our own lives.

And what of the cost to this country in lost productivity from sick workers, the strain on our wobbly medical system, and the dollars and cents price to care for uninsured, low-income patients with avoidable chronic diseases due to smoking? And of course in true capitalistic fashion, it is the poor and less educated citizens that have the highest rates of cigarette use. Statistically, there is a direct correlation between education levels and smoking behavior.

The 'anti-smoking gang' has removed ashtrays from cars and public ashcans, so this is the reason we have tons of filters on our roads, in our towns, rivers and seas? NO WAY!!! Again, its supposedly somebody else's fault people act in a piggish manner! Baloney!!! People have been throwing down ciggy butts on the ground and out their car windows since smoking cigs began. Take a walk down most any city street and you can observe hundreds of butts within 10 feet of ashcans. People do what they want to do. I know plenty of smokers that strip their butts and pocket them (some in baggies) until they can dispose of them properly. And if folks want to relieve themselves in the street, walk around town nude, hold dog fights in their backyard, or set up a brothel to pimp out their kids , should that be OK too, because the government (which is supposed to be composed of our citizenry) "should not legislate any lifestyle issues"'? I don't believe that you really would stand by that statement if it came to pass.

And finally, as far as not castigating you for "feeling attacked by the non-smoking gang" , I am not challenging that you feel attacked, - I bet you do. I challenge whether you really are being attacked by an anti-smoking gang. But each of our realities is based on what we feel and think, so I believe it is real for you. I am sorry that you experience a discomfort in your life around this issue. I have been a smoker and I love several people who happen to be smokers. I have buried smokers that I loved that would not quit to prove the same point you seem to be making. Maybe there is a good, positive and productive reason that you are bothered by it. Maybe its your own inner conflict about your negative behavior and not enjoying feeling judged by others for it. Maybe if you are truly comfortable and at peace with your smoking behavior you would not feel as victimized. ...just maybe...

peace and good health!

"Are you breathing just a little, and calling it a life?" Mary Oliver


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