BANG !

[Wise One]

A pearl of wisdom from George Costanza, smarter than they guys on the conservative cabal of the Supreme Court, and anybody who supports the NRA.

[crux]

...and I am no swine. First of all, as a Free born citizen of America where the Law is based upon the premiss that I have a God given right to self defense, I reject the "common sense gun laws" YOU FAIL TO ADVANCE. AO, let's hear it...

Secondly 100,000 folks don't die each year in this country to "domestic gun violence". George is wrong.

George also fails in his championship of the Militia interpretation of the 2nd amendment. A position you agree with...
Fortunately the correct interpretation is that of an Individual Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

It is clear George is not a gun owner or really very knowledgeable about guns or gun law.

As long as we are quoting Founding Fathers:

”[The Constitution preserves] the advantage of being armed which Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation (where) the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms.”
~James Madison

”Firearms are second only to the Constitution in importance; they are the peoples’ liberty’s teeth.”
~George Washington

”The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed.”
~Alexander Hamilton

”The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun.”
~Patrick Henry

crux

[Wise One]

100,000 folks don't die each year in this country to "domestic gun violence". George is wrong.

You are correct ... an extra zero snuck in there. Dunno whether it's a substantive mistake or a simple typo.

[crux]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/former- ... -colorado/

...on how to deal with just such a situation, and general SA (situational awareness).

[coondog]

Get real! Where in the Bible does God endow anybody with the right to carry a gun?

How about a God given right to manage one's own bodily functions? How about a God given right to vote?

Find me a quote where the founding fathers address photo IDs!

Conservatives are all about divine providence when they want something, but not so much when it doesn't serve their interests. Truth is, the constitution is a human invention, designed purposefully to be adaptable to the reality of a changing culture and, as we have seen, open to interpretation.

The fact that a 'common sense' solution is rejectable indicates a complete lack of common sense!

In Pennsylvania and Florida, you have instant background check to buy a gun, but have to register to vote about a month ahead. In both states, cost is less for a gun permit vs voter id card.

We legislate against non-existent voter fraud....but are inhibited from addressing wholesale murder.

Neither you nor I should have body armor, tear gas or machine guns. The only reason for citizens to have these things is exemplified in Colorado.

Some people need to use their heads for something other than a 24 hour repository for right wing propaganda.

Coondog

Loves guns......hates Nuts!

[crux]

1. Are you saying we have no NATURAL "god given" right to defend our life?

2. What is a "machine gun"?

crux

hint: 86% of all guns owned in the US are semi-automatic

[Wise One]

There are sane people out there. It's just that they keep getting trumped by an insane NRA and cowardly politicians.

[crux]

Nicely written. There are many sane and sound people out there. No one seriously advocates everyone should be armed. Obviously it is a serious consideration.

4 trained service personnel lost their lives to J.H. in the Utopian gun free zone.

The signs were posted and the law abiding, well, they complied...



crux

[Wise One]

Carnage, in the name of "protection" and "gun rights", continues. When you put millions of guns in the hands of mostly males, the negative public health consequences are both predictable and inevitable.

• Music critic gives scathing review of organ performance.
• Children shall pay for the sins of their parents. Tell me again why this makes sense? I keep forgetting.
• Normal adolescent hijinks results in death because of gun-happy father.
• Today's all-too-familiar news item. There will be more tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow.
• After a stiff drink I'll drive over and exercise my 2nd amendment right to shoot towelheads.
• Yet again, the 2nd Amendment rushes to the aid of a family to resolve "domestic difficulties."
• Another illustration of the 2nd amendment helping to iron out those family wrinkles.
• Another child dies because relatives kept a gun.
• Let's be quiet and safe tonight. Let's just go to a movie.
• Another right wing, gun/immigration nutcase offs his friends and family. Guns for "safety?" Fuggeddaboutit.
• This is a consequence of guns in the hands of many for "self defense." Another innocent life lost.
• "I'm gonna put this loaded gun under my car seat. I'm a genius. What could go wrong?"
• This movie keeps playing over and over, a very sick "Ground Hog Day," but with never a happy ending.
• Again and again, guns kept at home for "safety," kill family members who would otherwise be alive.
• A pastor's daughter, in church. Who could be safer?
• "Mebbe I shoulda been more gruntled. Anyhoo, I don't need no damn union to hep, the 2nd Amendment will do jes fine."
• "Wow, there are guns everywhere around here! Lemme show you what I learned in the Army."
• Afghanistan was a picnic compared to gun-ridden America.
• Christmas brings some families together. Forever.
• A 12-year old knew what the NRA does not.
• Happy holidays, family-o-mine!
• I said "cut it short," but this is ridiculous.
• Teddy bear? Rattle? Squeakie ball? Naw, try this.
• Smiley-face pancakes, please. Oh, and one more thing.
• Let them eat cake.
• Modern family relations in middle America.
• Teens at a house party. What could go wrong?
• Happy Birthday!
• Casino stakes can be higher than you think
• The family that skates together, stays together. Forever.
• Gun nut goes international, American style. The boys down at the NRA are high-fiving each other today.
• 12-year old boys at play in a house under the 2nd amendment's protection
• "I'm feeling out of sorts this morning. Here's a little something for the wifey to make it all better."
• It takes only a little tough love to preserve marital fidelity
• The 2nd Amendment sure helps to keep the little woman in line
• My dog has a 2nd amendment right to crap on your lawn!
• Another toddler "protected" by the 2nd amendment
• Kids playing on the couch. How cute. What could go wrong?
• I'll bury the gun, that'll be safe. "Hey kids, go play in the yard."
• The switch and the leather belt are so old fashioned. Here's an up-to-date disciplinary aid.
• Them video games is nifty. Let's spice 'em up.
• Dang!
• Yup. This thang I'm carrying will make me safer.
• Soccer mom packs a pistol for protection. How did that work out?
• Congresswoman and staff learns all about today's sort of Arizonan. Guns welcome.
• So cute, kids and their Halloween pranks on each other.
• Texas leads the nation in gun nuts and crazy gun laws. This is the result.
• Hey, he just wanted to party. What could be wrong with that?
• The 2nd amendment facilitates couples counseling in Vinton. (thanks Fangz)
• Asians, just trying to assimilate to American culture.
• "Hi kids, daddy's here for visitation." Texas makes some things so convenient.
• Happy Birthday!
• The 2nd amendment does so much! It helped this Virginia family distribute inherited land among themselves.
• Gee, I hope this wedding reception will be exciting.
• So cute, little boys playing with the family gun.
• Won't let me drive that beer truck anymore? This one's for you.
• Buena Vista resident creatively cuts through divorce paperwork in Fairfield.
• Everybody's "packing" in Texas, so even a limousine ride can be dicey.
• Husband-o-mine, allow me to retort.
• What an innovative way to secure university tenure!
• He didn't do his chores, but he went to school afterward just like a good little boy. Guns at home for "safety?" I don't think so.
• I collected all these guns. What to do with them? Wait, I know!
• Retirement check not big enough? Here's a good solution.
• Here's one for all you sports fans.
• Happy Thanksgiving, family o' mine!
• I'll just meet you at work, honey.
• Good healthy exercise? Think again. A hundred million guns are out there thanks to NRA's slimeball "protection" racket.
• Go to sleep, honey, you need your rest.
• Thank god for the 2nd amendment, so useful for breaking up those pesky love triangles.
• Yet again. Virginia is for Lovers?
• "Let's put on a show!" "Good idea, I'll get my gun."
• Relatives arming relatives to shoot relatives. Sigh.
• A novel way to "fix" a speeding ticket.
• Sometimes, if rarely, it's females, and shooting ranges are no panacea against stupid/crazy behavior.
• Let's drop in for a nice visit to the old folks' home, ok?
• Is the gun lover, or Obama, to blame?
• Family, shmamily.
• Cleanliness is next to godliness? Maybe not.
• A rare German keeps 18 guns at home, American style. Here's what happened!
• No video games, son. Oh yeah?
• The real cost of guns everywhere.
• How do I love thee? Let me count the ways.
• Family Values? I don't think so.
• Happy Thanksgiving? I don't think so.
• Boy Shot and Killed Halloween Night While Trick or Treating (thanks to fangz)
• 2 dead in shooting at UCA
• William Balfour, family killer of Jennifer Hudson's mother, brother & nephew?

Attaining a sensible balance between freedom and safety is difficult, but possible.

[crux]

Hello Sir. How do you put a post up as an updated last post on a topic thread, as example, right here before my query?

Is there a tool or technique? Does it have to be a thread you yourself started? It is a nice thing!

It's like a Perpetual last word sorta.


Now, both AO, and the Leftist shooter in the first mentioned example should know there is no "2nd amendment right to shoot towel-heads". Simple leftists distill cultural differences down to dress and outward appearance, but stereotypes aside, this racially motivated and demographic socialist shooter, has company today...

A political tool of the left holding a Chik Fil A bag and posing as an intern shot a security guard in the arm at The Family Research Council headquarters, a non-violent Christian Conservative Think Tank today.
Intolerance and Identity Politics at it's WORST!!

Anyway:

So, how does AO get to put his list at the end of this thread magically, Stonewall? It is a neat trick!

cruxwiththecurrentlastword

[Wise One]

This latest incident is yet another in our national parade of horrors, this one particularly awful because of children's' ages and the death toll.

American deaths caused by guns used either accidentally or maliciously vastly outnumber the death toll of the 9/11 WTC attack. For the latter incident we made fundamental societal changes, erected security barriers and procedures most everywhere, and spent many trillions of dollars.

The significantly more deadly domestic gun toll has produced this response: almost nothing. If anything, standing prudent measures have been rolled back. (Supreme Court ruling, "open carry" laws, "stand your ground" laws, and the repeal of many restrictions & controls on guns.)

With each new horror I hope that mobilization will begin for sensible and effective control of our gun scourge. Americans can and will act, of that I am certain, but it is appalling to realize that it will probably take a single catastrophic event killing thousands all at one time before we do. Popping people off at max a few dozen or so at a time, in thousands of incidents, produces only a national "ho-hum," a few crocodile tears, and even more gun purchases as the level of national terror rises. My friends living in other countries look and us and say to me, "How stupid!" They are right.

[fangz1956]

WO,

I can appreciate and respect your position on this issue. However, I think that this is exactly what we can expect in a society that has systemically and drastically reduced mental health resources (the VT shooting is a prime example of that fact). This is also a society that continually falls prey to the fear card every time it's trumped. People who live in unrealistic fear and paranoia will arm themselves to the teeth. The guns are merely a symptom of a much deeper public "health" issue.....a mental health issue that is not being addressed realistically. Rather, budgeting and resources are continually cut and cut and cut until people needing help just give up. We, as a society (and the NRA included) need to demand that issue be addressed and that we begin shoring up mental health services rather than working to eliminate them entirely. All of the responsible gun owners I know are all for reasonable and sane gun control laws......and they are also for addressing the dire need for good mental health services available to all.

I think this is kind of where we are every time this debate rages:


Just substitute Arab, Muslim, Gay, Immigrant, Illegal Alien for Communist and there we are.

[crux]

There is a report that Lanza attempted to buy a rifle last week, and was denied. This seems to be a terribly troubled young man. We don't know but might suspect SSRI (selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitor) drugs, patterns of threat behaviors...

This is terribly sad. It is hard to protect against the abnormal. Patterns don't equal profile. I wish there evil actors would just kill themselves. I don't understand the desire to kill others and then themselves.

This is horribly tragic, and will be used as a vehicle for both helpful and unhelpful actions. I wonder what those close to Lanza knew. Did the Mother have her guns locked up? Who trained this young man in their use...

I followed this for 2 hours yesterday, and let it pour over me. Fangz has made the point before about mental health monies and services. I would have to do a little research. We used to institutionalize a whole segment of our society that we "manage" now with drugs. You can not force a person to take their meds, and with some meds and head cases. Well...

Thou shalt not kill. We have laws. We enforce them and are aware more or less. People will die by hook or by crook.

Apparently as well new security measures were in place. This wasn't a Jihadist, or a gang banging wannabe thug. This wasn't an aggrieved leftist, falsely portrayed in the media or on this forum as a "righty", thank goodness. The real and stark reality. The tragic profound brokenness is just that obvious. I see broken families. I see human failure.

I see sad realities...... I feel the 9/11 feeling. Here is Mas Ayoob:

AGAINST MONSTERS
Saturday, December 15th, 2012 by Mas | 50 Comments »

The atrocity at the Connecticut elementary school will not be the last such horror, nor was it the first or even the worst. Go back to the year 1764, in what is now Franklin County, Pennsylvania. The first: during Pontiac’s Rebellion in the wake of the French and Indian War, four “warriors” entered a schoolhouse and slaughtered the headmaster and some ten children. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac%27 ... l_massacre . The worst: in 1927, a crazed monster beat his wife to death, then triggered a bombing in an elementary school in Bath, Michigan, killing some 38 kids and several adults. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster .

I’ll repeat what I said in the Wall Street Journal op-ed section and on the Today show in 1999, after the Columbine High School atrocity: if we simply prepared teachers to handle this type of crisis the way we teach them to handle fires and medical emergencies, the death toll would drop dramatically. We don’t hear of mass deaths of children in school fires these days: fire drills have long since been commonplace, led by trained school staff, not to mention sprinkler systems and smoke alarms and strategically placed fire extinguishers that can nip a blaze in the bud while firefighters are en route. In the past, if someone “dropped dead,” people would cry and wring their hands and wail, “When will the ambulance get here?” Today, almost every responsible adult knows CPR; most schools have easily-operated Automatic Electronic Defibrillators readily accessible; and a heart attack victim’s chance of surviving until the paramedics arrive to take over is now far greater.

The same principle works for defending against mass murders…it just doesn’t work HERE, because it is politically incorrect to employ it HERE. After the Ma’alot massacre in 1974, Israel instituted a policy in which volunteer school personnel, parents, and grandparents received special training from the civil guard, and were seeded throughout the schools armed with discreetly concealed 9mm semiautomatic pistols. Since that time, there has been no successful mass murder at an Israeli school, and every attempt at such has been quickly shortstopped by the good guys’ gunfire, with minimal casualties among the innocent. Similar programs are in place in Peru and the Phillippines, with similarly successful results.

Some people see the logic in the Israeli approach. Dave Workman does, as seen here: http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-w ... b_articles . Ann Coulter does, as seen here: http://www.thewrap.com/media/column-pos ... laws-69361 .

Unfortunately, in this country, logic has been buried under political correctness. Those in power whose ego is invested in brie et Chablis values that include scorn for the peasantry they accuse of “clinging to guns and Bibles” will never see that logic. Children will continue to die in gun-free zones hunting preserves for psychopathic murderers, and the cowardly murderers will continue to surrender or kill themselves as soon as armed good guys show up…far too late.

[Wise One]

This is also a society that continually falls prey to the fear card every time it's trumped. People who live in unrealistic fear and paranoia will arm themselves to the teeth.

You are so right. I believe that Americans may be the most fearful people on the planet, with perhaps the least reason to be fearful. This cartoon nails it:

[crux]

...but:

This cartoon nails it:

Pathetic. What a hater. What intolerance and bigotry. What illogical blinders you wear. Or are you joking? No? Loser...

[Wise One]

Deflection from the actual problem by focusing on unrelated events:

Go back to the year 1764, in what is now Franklin County, Pennsylvania. The first: during Pontiac’s Rebellion in the wake of the French and Indian War, four “warriors” entered a schoolhouse and slaughtered the headmaster and some ten children...in 1927, a crazed monster beat his wife to death, then triggered a bombing in an elementary school in Bath, Michigan, killing some 38 kids and several adults.

This a different kind of deflection, focusing on action after emergency rather than preventing that emergency:

...if we simply prepared teachers to handle this type of crisis the way we teach them to handle fires and medical emergencies, the death toll would drop dramatically. We don’t hear of mass deaths of children in school fires these days: fire drills

Who can doubt that fire codes, improvements in construction, and regulations requiring sprinklers BEFORE an emergency have saved far more lives than frantic efforts to stave disaster afterwards?
A twisted NRA-type argument would prohibit us from implementing preventive measures and force us to rely only on less effective action after an emergency has already presented itself.
If every teacher in every classroom in America were packing heat, I promise you some kids will get their hands on those guns and start blasting away. Miss Lucy, my kindergarten teacher and nice person, would have been less than useless. Most other teachers are the same.

...knows CPR; most schools have easily-operated Automatic Electronic Defibrillators

These after-the-fact interventions are somewhat helpful even though most victims of such medical emergencies do not survive. These actions are not NEARLY as effective as preventive measures such as smoking cessation and general health maintenance.

It's all about focusing like a laser on disciplined public health measures before-the-fact, not cowboy save-the-victim-at-the-last-minute grandstanding.

[crux]

The 10 children killed in 1764 and the 38 killed in 1927 serve to show this sort of killing has happened before. It will happen again, be it in Norway, Scotland or Belarus. There is no DEFLECTION.

BELOW is DEFLECTION:

If every teacher in every classroom in America were packing heat, I promise you some kids will get their hands on those guns and start blasting away. Miss Lucy, my kindergarten teacher and nice person, would have been less than useless. Most other teachers are the same.

I will always remember your holier than thou attempt to lecture me by linking to a website on logic fallacies. You yourself have consistently used them ever since, the putz you are... Above is another example. You sound ridiculous.

NO ONE advocates that arming all teachers is wise. Get a grip. I think of the teachers/administrators that I know that are ex military. IF they would volunteer, and were competent, I say arm them.

AO, why are you so very silly here? I am sure we all know Miss Lucys. Do you not know teachers and administrators that you would not TRUST to be armed or have access in school to defensive arms? No deflection now.

Simple question... Care to venture an opinion?

Question 2 relates: Did you catch the mall shooting in Oregon? The bad guy in Clackamas killed himself after he was confronted by an armed citizen. This point has been made before: The shooting often stops when the bad guy is confronted with a good guy or gal with a gun.

[Buck Turgidson]

She just got the news. Jillian Soto is crying for her sister, Victoria Soto.

I'm finished trying to persuade stupid people that their fealty to firearms is misplaced. It is time to fight these destructive morons and make our country a better place to live.

No more argument and persuasion, it will never work with Neanderthals. At long, long last it is time to fight and win a political battle. A majority of our good citizens demand and deserve it.

[crux]

"Neanderthals"? Buck, check the Brady Campaign site: http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/sta ... nkings.pdf

Connecticut ranks 5th on the scorecard in the Nation.

Sandy Hook was a very safe place. This is dysfunctional evil that is to blame. Not the tool. Lanza KILLED, his mother, and STOLE, her guns, and killed 26 more in premeditation. He brought guns within 1000 feet of a School. All highly illegal.

Don't be so quick Buck. The guns were legally bought, and as per State Law, registered.

Pray tell what would you do Buck?

[Buck Turgidson]

And you sir are among the morons. Enough of your quibbling, your minimizing, your zealotry, your determination to ignore the problem and perpetuate it. It's time for our elected representatives to have a final talk, agree on a practical means to solve it, and then vote solutions.