BANG !

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Pro Bono
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Re: BANG !

Postby Pro Bono » 2008 Jun 30 19:42

Truckie,Yep I was a Door Gunner, U.S.M.C. 69-71.Two tours and I was a very blessed and lucky young man that I'm here today.As far as the 2nd goes I don't want anyone tweaking my ( our) beloved 2nd.I would put my life on the line to protect our Constitutional rights and did so 40 years ago. My only issue with gun ownership today is "training" over and over until gun safty becomes second nature to the shooter. I was taught at age 7. By age 11 I could breakdown my Rem.870 clean it , store it correctly and knew how to carry it in the feild when bird hunting with adults.I have taught my son the same.I just don't like to see Joe Shmoe walk into a gun store and after waiting period come back and pick up a 40 cal Glock and 100 rounds of ammo.Joe should attend a shooting safty class and bring his wife or son along also if this is his first firearm. 10 hours of range and class time should do it. Then I don't ming Joe packing a Glock. Particularly with a almost nonexistent saftey on the Glocks.

The lady I'm currantly dating was given a S&W 38 snub by her girlfeinds husband after her divorce. She had never fired a weapon before in her life. I said why didn't he just give you a Rattlesnake ? So off to the range we went.To cut to the chase she now enjoys target shooting with a 17 HMR rifle. She can clean her weopon and can adjust windage on her scope now.But the really good part is she cleans her own gun,if you know what I mean.The 38 snub stays in her nightstand locked and loaded.I mounted a laser on the gun and told the last thing you ever want to do is shoot a man.If they dont "Run Forest Run" with a red dot on their cheast,then shoot.When her gradaughter comes to visit for weekends the 38 goes to the top of the closet with a cable lock thru it. Her 17 HMR has cable lock and cased and stored in top of closet.She enjoys the sport and competing with me target shooting.Funny thing about female shooters, they have the paitence for that almost perfect squeze on a trigger.She now wants to shoot my 7mm. She wants to get into the 300-400 yard range shooting now.I am fortunate as I have a girlfreind who enjoys my sport.

My gun club is starting to have classes for teenagers ( free) to come to the range and learn to shoot and I don't mean just pulling the trigger and saying wow that was cool.I am one of the insructers and I am a NRA certified insructer .It is a lot of fun to see these young people understand guns & safe shooting.I would love to see gun safty courses taught in highschools. We teach drivers education.But basically it is the parents resposibility to educate their spouses and children if they are shooters and keep a weapon in the home.I'm tired of having my sport trashed and regulated because people like Joe Shmoe don't take the time to learn and then teach safe shooting to their children. It all starts at home just like yes sir and no mam.Hope I have made my position clear on guns and the 2nd. I have to come to Lexington to pick up a car from my freind's house soon was trying to get there this coming weekend ,but would love to get with you and shoot some clay birds. Safe Shooting, Pro

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Public Health

Postby Wise One » 2008 Jul 01 14:22

Image
Monday, Jun. 30, 2008
Half of US Gun Deaths are Suicides
By AP/MIKE STOBBE

(ATLANTA) — The Supreme Court's landmark ruling on gun ownership last week focused on citizens' ability to defend themselves from intruders in their homes. But research shows that surprisingly often, gun owners use the weapons on themselves.

Suicides accounted for 55% of the nation's nearly 31,000 firearm deaths in 2005, the most recent year for which statistics are available from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

There was nothing unique about that year — gun-related suicides have outnumbered firearm homicides and accidents for 20 of the last 25 years. In 2005, homicides accounted for 40% of gun deaths. Accidents accounted for 3 percent. The remaining 2% included legal killings, such as when police do the shooting, and cases that involve undetermined intent.

Public-health researchers have concluded that in homes where guns are present, the likelihood that someone in the home will die from suicide or homicide is much greater.

Studies have also shown that homes in which a suicide occurred were three to five times more likely to have a gun present than households that did not experience a suicide, even after accounting for other risk factors.


In a 5-4 decision, the high court on Thursday struck down a handgun ban enacted in the District of Columbia in 1976 and rejected requirements that firearms have trigger locks or be kept disassembled. The ruling left intact the district's licensing restrictions for gun owners.

One public-health study found that suicide and homicide rates in the district dropped after the ban was adopted. The district has allowed shotguns and rifles to be kept in homes if they are registered, kept unloaded and taken apart or equipped with trigger locks.

The American Public Health Association, the American Association of Suicidology and two other groups filed a legal brief supporting the district's ban. The brief challenged arguments that if a gun is not available, suicidal people will just kill themselves using other means.

More than 90% of suicide attempts using guns are successful, while the success rate for jumping from high places was 34 percent. The success rate for drug overdose was 2 percent, the brief said, citing studies.

"Other methods are not as lethal," said Jon Vernick, co-director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research in Baltimore.


The high court's majority opinion made no mention of suicide. But in a dissenting opinion, Justice Stephen Breyer used the word 14 times in voicing concern about the impact of striking down the handgun ban.

"If a resident has a handgun in the home that he can use for self-defense, then he has a handgun in the home that he can use to commit suicide or engage in acts of domestic violence," Breyer wrote.

Researchers in other fields have raised questions about the public-health findings on guns.

Gary Kleck, a researcher at Florida State University's College of Criminology and Criminal Justice, estimates there are more than 1 million incidents each year in which firearms are used to prevent an actual or threatened criminal attack.

Public-health experts have said the telephone survey methodology Kleck used likely resulted in an overestimate.

Both sides agree there has been a significant decline in the last decade in public-health research into gun violence.

The CDC traditionally was a primary funder of research on guns and gun-related injuries, allocating more than $2.1 million a year to such projects in the mid-1990s.

But the agency cut back research on the subject after Congress in 1996 ordered that none of the CDC's appropriations be used to promote gun control.


Vernick said the Supreme Court decision underscores the need for further study into what will happen to suicide and homicide rates in the district when the handgun ban is lifted.

Today, the CDC budgets less than $900,000 for firearm-related projects, and most of it is spent to track statistics. The agency no longer funds gun-related policy analysis.
Note by Wise One: Republican madness, like refusing to fund AIDS policy analysis, lest some kinds of sex be found to be harmless.
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

Truckie
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Howdy again...

Postby Truckie » 2008 Jul 01 16:08

Last edited by Truckie on 2008 Jul 02 11:57, edited 1 time in total.

Truckie
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Re: Public Health

Postby Truckie » 2008 Jul 01 19:09


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Wise One
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Re: BANG !

Postby Wise One » 2008 Jul 01 19:21

Huh? I guess you do need to say more. I don't get your point.
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

Truckie
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Re: BANG !

Postby Truckie » 2008 Jul 01 19:41


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Re: BANG !

Postby fangz1956 » 2008 Jul 02 02:06

Wise One,

I've been following this thread and trying not to say much. The on-going debate amongst you fellas is rather interesting to watch and informative to read. But this thought just crossed my mind and I thought it was perhaps worthy of your time.
I know from other threads that you are a great admirer of the late George Carlin. This past weekend, I had the opportunity to see a replay of his performance titled "You Are All Diseased." Do you remember that one? He rants on about the lunacy of airport security and finally winds into a piece about dangerous fun. The sports of shooting and hunting must be somewhat parallel to the exhilaration of say, parachuting. Looking at the inherent risks involved with each one, they both qualify as dangerous fun. Same could be said for white water rafting, bungee jumping, race car driving, stunt flying and even riding a rollercoaster. Think about it..................they are all dangerous fun and that is why people are attracted to them. It's pushing the envelope and living on the edge......................feeling alive even as your heart is stopping dead in its tracks.
I have to agree with Truckie, CC, and ProBono on this. All statistics aside, it really comes down to gun safety education. I must say that when the Constitution and Bill of Rights were drafted, firearms expertise was a part of everyday life in this country. My ex-husband told me not to buy or keep a gun if I was afraid of the weapon......that's when people get killed. A loaded weapon in uneducated hands where fear of the weapon rather than respect for its power prevails. Even though I still don't own a gun, I will defend to death the right of others to own and carry guns. Once that right is gone, we are indeed in dire straits as a nation and as a free people.

:wink:

Remember now......................."dangerous fun."
Ever looked at someone and thought "the wheel is turning but the hamster is dead"?

Pro Bono
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Re: BANG !

Postby Pro Bono » 2008 Jul 02 07:16

Truckie,Glocks are probably the finest and most dependable pistol made on Earth today. You can drop one off a roof ,run it over, throw it in a lake And generally abuse the hell out of that weapon . And it wont jam and is good for 200 rounds after massive abuse. Glocks are truly the Kalashnikov of pistols.For LEO carry there isn't a better weapon.I own of the first model 17 9mm bought in mid 80s. Accurate right out of the box. BUT when it comes to squezzing that trigger you have to get by that trigger safty. OK I'm a big fan of double action.And I'm sure you would like a hammer on the butt end of your 40. Particullarly with one in the tube ( chamber).I'm pushing 57 now so I guess that makes me a old timer now. But I don't care for the Poly guns that much. I like that deep blueing and wood grips or on some of my pistols that have a little bite a set of Pachmyers.Yea, I own a Kimber beutiful gun and craftmanship. When I saw it I fell in love with the craftmanship and rosewood grips.So I ate peanut butter and jelly for a few months.No augrument the Glock is the Kalashnikov of of pistols.But I'm sure you understand my point, particularly being a LEO. I don't feel that a first time gun should be a Glock.I really like that large safty switch on my Kimber and a 1911 hard baller I own. Being other Forum members arn't familar with Glock talk I will cease now. Wise One, I must admit I look forward to your posts you definetly add some spice and sometimes flames to this forum. But I must make a comment about CDC. I practice Maritime Law and have locked horns with the CDC in Atlanta many times. They are typical goverment sloughes.Few years ago one of my clients ships had the Norwalk virus onboard. These CDC guys are idiots. I think that they recruit them out of JR. Collage give them a white short sleeve shirt and a clip on tie.I actually had a Federal Judge start laughing at them in a hearing. The couldn't even get their "stories' straight between 7 of them.I do respect your opinion .As I do all others on this Forum . But the CDC has no credability with me at all. But that is due to my personal interaction with them. There may be some of their agents that know what they are doing.But thru out my carrer I have dealt with perhaps 30-40 of them.It is scary the power the Goverment gives guys with clip on ties.Hell they can't figure out if the Tomatoe I ate last night has Sominela or not. Frangz, Thanks for reading the gun chat thats been going on here. Perhaps you see the other side that shooting is a sport and not a Macho thing of owning a firearm.No there is no thrill seeking when I shoot. It the same as golf,billards or bowling,just a more responsible sport. That must be practiced sober,safely and with concern for the freind or other shooter next to you. Be it in a feild bird hunting or at a gun range. When you hit your target the size of a tea cup at 300 yards,That is a thrill. But many hours practicing your breathing ( you must exhale all air out of your lungs )and trigger squezze. So it is alott like a whole in one in golf or not missing one pocket playing pool. I love to as I call it go to the range and get in the "groove". Which requires concentration and as I wrote before hours of practice. And yes there are days I just cant get in the groove.Some days I feel like I cant hit a barn door.So I quess the best way to descibe target shooting would be similar to Golf or Billards/Pool. They too rquire getting in the groove,concentration and paitence.Oh' As I complimented Wise One I do enjoy your posts and the even keel you address subjects with.You and Wise One are the two most noteable posters that keep me coming back to read your opinions and ideas on this forum. Wise One what is the next topic ? Regards, Pro

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Re: BANG !

Postby Concerned_Citizen » 2008 Jul 02 07:46

I know it is your opinion PB but I disagree with the notion that a Glock shouldn't be your first pistol. My G23 was my first and is still my everyday carry. I think that's how I have come to respect firearms so much because when you pull the trigger it will go bang. Now mind you I carry for defense and 99% of the time it's concealed. When the SHTF I don't want to worry about clicking off a safety and worry about whether I'm in double action or single action mode. When I need it I want it 100% available to me.

I understand that you can train to click off your safety while you're drawing and all that jazz but when it comes down to it, and my eyes narrow and my heart starts pumping I don't want to rely on that fine motor skill. I train monthly if not more with Ole Faithful, and while I have not been in a situation where I've been fighting for my life, I feel that I can properly defend myself and those around me if I were forced to.

I also agree that Kimbers, although quite expensive, are beautiful guns, but I view the firearms I have as tools, not flaunted, and therefore should take a little abuse (the front sight on my G23 is pretty dinged up for one handed reload drills). I would be sad if I did that to a Kimber, and I have not gotten into gun collection yet. But I think maybe I should buy up all the 30 round mags and all the evil black rifles before the D's take over... :craz:
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Re: BANG !

Postby Wise One » 2008 Jul 02 10:35

"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

Truckie
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Re: BANG !

Postby Truckie » 2008 Jul 02 11:45


Truckie
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Re: BANG !

Postby Truckie » 2008 Jul 02 11:54


Truckie
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The G

Postby Truckie » 2008 Jul 02 14:11

Pro Bono,

Unlike CC, I do agree with you that a Glock should not be in the hands of a novice. Again, the Glock is the premier combat handgun and mastering it requires one's full attention and solid reinforcement; that it's an auto-loader adds additional training curve. The novice should not allow self to get into a situation where "combat" may occur. However, there are many more reasons for this opinion other than "because its a Glock."

When others approach me about a handgun, if they're experienced and want an auto-loader, I will surely advocate Glock. But, I will do so with stern warnings... such as, "if you pull the trigger on a Glock, it will shoot where it's aimed; keep your finger OFF the trigger until...!" If a true novice comes around asking questions, I always head them toward the revolver as a first handgun.

To CC's defense, he is far from the "average" shooter. He is the kind that did a lot of research into what he wanted his tool to do and comparing that to what available tools would fit his criteria. Based upon his investigation and determinations, the Glock fit him and was his logical choice. To CC's credit, if he and I ever find ourselves in a gun fight together, I would be comfortable with him shooting from behind me. Moral, he's put a lot of effort into his training and practice, so therefore, he's prejudice that a Glock can be a "first gun." I, on the other hand, understand fully the point that you make.

I too love the look of classic arms. The Kimber is one of my favorites with its deep bluing or brushed stainless and contrasting wood trimmings. One I fell in love with was brushed, matte stainless with ebon grips... simply beautiful. I also watched in horror as that $2200 piece of craftsmanship jamed three rounds of the eight. Reaffirming the Glock is my defensive tool of choice, polymer or not. The hammer on the back of the slide is a nice plus though :salut:

Let's all try to hook up when you come to LexVegas.

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Re: BANG !

Postby Concerned_Citizen » 2008 Jul 02 18:17

But I'm a lefty, Truck calls me a bed-wetter... :sad:
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Truckie
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Re: BANG !

Postby Truckie » 2008 Jul 02 18:37


Truckie
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Re: BANG !

Postby Truckie » 2008 Jul 02 19:02


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Re: BANG !

Postby Concerned_Citizen » 2008 Jul 02 20:12

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Truckie
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elaboration

Postby Truckie » 2008 Jul 03 09:26


Truckie
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Re: NRA Nut Jobs

Postby Truckie » 2008 Jul 03 11:53

Last edited by Truckie on 2008 Jul 04 17:40, edited 3 times in total.

Truckie
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Taking Wise to task again

Postby Truckie » 2008 Jul 04 14:46

Last edited by Truckie on 2008 Jul 05 15:28, edited 1 time in total.


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