BANG !

[crux]

I am wondering, WHO TOOK THAT PICTURE, 'dog...

You ignore history otherwise.

I do not think you have grappled with Feinstein's proposed bill for example. Treating all semi automatic guns within the NFA rules, regarding them as machine guns, in fact?? You are not even trying to grapple with these issues. The SCOTUS affirming the 2nd goes to an INDIVIDUAL RIGHT?? coondog. I expect better from you.

State by State Liberty will be under assault. Look at New york. That 10 round mag limit is now 7. You have to register all semis within one year, or you are a criminal. Just saying. I think that New Yorkers who LIKE this sort of thing should move back to New York. Really... Vermont, liberal as it stands, has consistently given it's finger to a Leftist gun agenda. And it WORKS. Imagine that.

[coondog]

This silly conversation continues on the premise that the government is about to disarm everyone. That is not proposed or anticipated.

What has been proposed, on a national level, will not (as I have said) affect much of anybody except the cronically paranoid who don't already possess swat team armaments.

I am not concerned about, nor fearful that I cannot single handedly take on the United States government in a shootout.

What concerns me is......"How DID juggler get my picture?"

Coondog

“You got a gun, you don't have to work out.”
― Chris Rock

[crux]

People have always sought to protect themselves.

Just common people, who wish to live their lives.

Killers. Human evil incarnate in great ways and small have and will continue to levy their plots and death upon their victims. Free and good people will seek to resist and protect themselves by any means necessary or available. Hitler was fought all along the way by the well regulated.

Again. Let us say there are 1 or 10 murders per 100,000 people. Laws against murder and guns do little to stop the evil.

We will read of this young adults contributing factors to murder. AO will deem him mentally ill and the shooting a health hazard. Are they suggesting the victims in this latest assault or Hitler's victims are RIGHTFULLY denied the means to defend themselves? Guns are tools. Cars are tools. Rocks are tools. Knives are tools. Trains are tools. Petrochemicals are tools. AO will vouch, penises are tools.

No one popularly elected the 15 year old nut-job to kill those folks, and maybe nobody much elected Hitler to kill millions. The difference is that Germans, popularly elected an usurpation regime. One of the critical things Hitler did to ensure compliance to his madness was register, and ultimately seize guns from the people that might resist him.

We may not see Hitler, any time soon, but, the actions of a homicidal and broken drug user, or car jacker, or rapist?

How about narco traffickers? Home invaders? Some of us are thankful to have been born to a tradition of personal responsibility and liberty. We have a right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness in spite of the thugs, the killers, and the murderous. We are environmentalists. Gay. Black. Agnostic. Female. Poor. We are free born and at liberty!!!

You do not sleep in my bed, raise my children or protect my wife and life. I will stand loudly against you if you seek to limit my right to keep and bear arms. It is my right and duty as a free thinking self aware caring and compassionate man.

Should my daughters wish to keep and bear, I will pray and fight for an outcome that will keep them free to choose...

I will grant you great leeway in dealing with the criminally deranged and dangerous.

Use law enforcement, the mental health system, drugs. Whatever.

Do not mistake my rifle or handgun, be they semi-automatic or black, as your property or under your control. Hands off. You protect your home first. I am the best neighbor anyone could have, whether I chose to live in the city, the suburb, or the country. Don't go all authoritarian on me friend.

Grow up people. Belly up to the bar of life. If you seek crazy people control, we can talk shop....

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Don't go all mushy on our Liberty. Hundreds of millions of us prove through our lifetimes the wisdom of self defense, through force of arms, in great ways and small. You seek to restrict and deny their liberty at great risk, friend. We will fight evil with fists and sticks. If you succeed in relegating us to sticks and rocks, for seven generation my children would curse your name, til one day they again secured for themselves their Liberty and Security.

Dramatic? Yes these times and our lives always have been. Don't you think?

[Wise One]

• Today's bad news.
• Today's good news: Somehow, amazingly, Hitler did not take power in the United States today.

[crux]

Healthy in the sense, of sane. Mentally healthy. I was not speaking to vaccines, by rather the progressive head case Wendy Button, who essentially did not possess a weapon because she was pretty sure it might be illegal given her commision to a mental hospital, and her suicidal tendencies.

I am most impressed with your "common sense gun laws". Coming from someone who believes the 2nd doesn't speak to an individual right, I am not surprised.

License to own guns by everyone. Registration of all guns. All guns must be secured at a third party facility when not in use, ostensibly a police station or perhaps a gun club. Want a gun on your nite stand or concealed on your person or in your car, FORGET IT. Want a gun on top of your fridge or leaned up in your rural farm property? Forget it.

In great ways and small, oppressed down trodden folks all over the world and through time have resisted their oppressors.

With their fists if they must.

Wendy Button might have had to lie on that FFL form in an effort to buy a gun. Would she have faced prosecution. NO.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________

Juggler. I suppose you do not believe that democratically elected representative governments can go usurpatious?

Nothing to fear here in a-MERICA?? The POLICE are us? The GUBBamint is US?? ALL this stuff about the fear of a police state and a tyranical government by the Left, is just paranoia??

"Toadie"-a tool or footsoldier for the regimen. Pick your poison. Now to the photo of that nearly naked dude.

I can't stop laughing!! That's brave! Does coondog know you uploaded his picture yet?

(catches his breath) Man Gig, that's so effed up!! That's the difference between AO and coon, the guns on the bed!!!

________________________

Seriously. Seriously. ...
________________________

Juggler... It comes down to some basics. Instant background checks, at points of sale, even private sales, that are not kept on file. I would let the States decide. The Federal Government should be promoting the civil rights, the individual rights of the US Constitution. It is scary close on the SCOTUS. There is compelling emotion, and sadly too much demonization.

I fully understand the arguments of AO and the assertions made by others. I will just disagree with a great many things.

Bet you most of the folks on this forum fully recognize the OBVIOUS facts about gun violence. Who is perpetrating the BULK of the gun violence, and it's distribution. Let's also recognize that a bunch of folks will use a gun to kill themselves. It may be tragic, and unfortunate uses of a firearms. It is healthy to hold the perpetrator responsible, be it George Zimmerman, or Trevon Martin, Adam Lanza... Whoever. There is no reason to disarm good people, or make criminals out of common ordinary people, be they democrat or republican, male or female, black or white, straight or gay.

The Pink Pistols don't agree with anti liberty gun bans of semi automatic guns, or standard magazines. Neither do true libertarians. They don't want there guns registered, and posted in the newspapers. No ordinary person does.

Whacky Elitist Fear of the Left is stunning. Guns are a great equalizer towards the sovereignty of the individual, the sovereignty of The People. You were born with rights and responsibilities. Safeguard them as Natural, Inerrant rights.

A parent's right to own a gun to protect the family. The old woman or veteran, the young professional. All adults have the Right to own and carry a gun. About the house, or just going about their business. Too often, too many are quick to restrict the population based on the actions of a lunatic minority.

Even in the black community. Good people have a right to defend themselves, in a community that they bitterly complain sometimes has been FAILED by government. Trust the good people who make up the bulk of the population. Liberty.

...why do so many wish to turn over to government more power. We have too much...

[Wise One]

We do not make laws for healthy folks based on unhealthy folks.

You are wrong. Here are some examples:

• Most states require healthy children to be current with vaccinations to attend day care centers or public schools
• There is a body of quarantine laws/regulations that restrict the movements of healthy people as well as people sick with some communicable diseases
• Even healthy and alert people over a certain age are required to endure more rigorous examination for drivers license renewal, out of a consideration of age-related probabilities.
• ... and many more.

[crux]

1.

I would happily accept a requirement that I be licensed to own and use them, and to store my firearms with a licensed and responsible custodian when I am not using them.

I do not confuse my manhood with a firearm, to my lady friends' delight.

I would reject the requirement to be licensed to own any gun. As well, the notion they be stored with a licensed custodian when not in use. For defensive use, they need to be close at hand. Kept, and borne.

I will not delve into your manhood comment. It betrays too much, is all I will say, my bigoted friend.

2. As to Wendy Button. Firstly, we do not all live around the corner of a police station! She is bright enough to know that she should not own a gun because of her depression, and dumb enough to have worked for John Edwards! A mixed bag...

We do not make laws for healthy folks based on unhealthy folks.

3. Juggler...

[Juggler]

[Wise One]

Do you own a gun for protection?

Of course not. That would be stupid.

Ever fire a gun?

Of course. I grew up in Rockbridge county, own guns, have hunted all over the county, plinked and shot guns from here to Alaska. I would happily accept a requirement that I be licensed to own and use them, and to store my firearms with a licensed and responsible custodian when I am not using them.

I do not confuse my manhood with a firearm, to my lady friends' delight.

[Wise One]

Urban violent crime, per population, is higher than rural violent crime. Look at the FBI statistics.

I've looked more closely at the data and concede your point, that within a state it is often true that the violent crime index is higher in metropolitan than in non-metropolitan areas.

As I said before, it's complex. There is some validity to the observation that density of a public health threat vector is often correlated with incidence rate. So it is with people in crowds carrying the influenza virus, and maybe also with people with guns. The more possibilities of interactions, the more infections=attacks, and crowded places providing larger numbers of interactions may be more dangerous in these terms. In my prior post I was responding to your over-broad statements "you live in a conservative rural area because it is safer," only pointing out that it's more complicated than than, densely populated states having higher violence indices than others. Alaska is very conservative, very rural, very low density, and has the highest violence index.

But I must stress again, since you and most other gunnies are determined always to deflect the conversation, that the principal problem with firearms is NOT crime. A huge number of firearms deaths and injuries arise or are inflicted on persons who are not criminals as we usually think of them. They are mostly friends, family, children, and suicides. Most would not have occurred had it not been so very, very easy to lay a hand on a gun.

[Amy Probenski]

Here's a well written thoughtful reason for improving the regulation of firearms.

[crux]

Good god. Thank him for the NRA.

I love armed good guys! Give me more!!! I have NO idea what you are ranting about "ATF". I like about half what you say on this issue. When your libertarian brain clashes with your socialistic progressive brain, I get lost...

[coondog]

I have decided not to bother to point out to the parrots of this world that most of these beliefs, arguments, and repitition of right wing blogs concerning gun legislation have nothing to do with the reality of the issue. Who would listen?

Face it! You can attempt to reason with these people all day long but they're convinced that Obama is coming for their guns and, without unfettered access to assault weapons, no one anywhere will be able to defend themselves, their family, their property, total strangers or (most important) the neighbor's dog.

The truth is, and everyone including Obama knows this, that if we outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns. The distinction often lost here is that there would not be less guns, only more criminals. Same applies when you crimimnalize anything that a substantial percentage of the population doesn't want criminalized.....like marijuana or abortion or slapping midgets.

This whole thing, as usual, is being blown out of whack. They're not gonna outlaw enough guns to make a dent because most people don't have or want what they're going to outlaw. But, the liars will still lie and the bobbleheads they lie to will still believe and the ignorance will go on and on and on and on.

Final note: I've heard a lot recently I didn't previously know about how NRA sponsored legislation has just about rendered the ATF (the agency they cite as responsible for overseeing existing laws) virtually useless.

Conclusion: The NRA is more responsible for gun deaths than video games, the mentally insane, accidental discharge, premeditated homicide, domestic dispute, gang warfare, overzealous cops, the Hatfields & the McCoys and probably World War II. If nothing else comes of this, at least the NRA has exposed themselves for what they really are.



Coondog

[crux]

Don't muddy the waters. Urban violent crime, per population, is higher than rural violent crime. Look at the FBI statistics.

I will link to 2010 for complete numbers. Don't play statistical nonsense. PER SQUARE MILE. For goodness sakes AO!!

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cr ... 0tbl05.xls

There are METROPOLITAN areas, NON metropolitan cities, and NON METROPOLITAN counties.
Look up the numbers yourself on violent crimes in these areas.

Pick your poison mate. It is a bit jumbled by state, population, divided by violent crimes, equals a number per... What you will find is that living in RURAL areas (non metropolitan counties) vs. non metropolitan cities OR metropolitan cities is:

SAFER. As well, less populated states have LESS violent crime per 100,000. Agree? GOOD.
_____________

From the FBI:

Alaska 710,000 4,500 157
Cali 37,000,000 164,000 225
Florida 19,000,000 102,000 186
Montana 1,000,000 2,700 370
New Jersey 8,800,000 27,000 325
Nevada 2,700,000 17,800 151
New york 19,000,000 76,000 250
Connecticut 3,500,000 10,000 350
Texas 25,000,000 113,000 221
Illinois 12,800,000 55,8000 229

Remember these are STATE totals of population and violent crime. Look into the differences between METRO cities NONmetro cities and non metro COUNTIES, friend.

Stop attacking. We are FREE thinking folks. Don't lecture and play statistics here AO. Admit I am right when I am right.

Dang, you make me sick.

Doesn't Florida stand out? Guess what. There are now OFFICIALLY 1,000,000 folks with CCW permits!!

Look. AO, you are anti choice here. Anti liberty. I can not respect that. If you want a Glock 26, which holds 10 rounds, GREAT!! If not, fine. I am pledged and inclined to protect mine. You are not responsible nor are the police.

You seem like the perfect putz lib to me. i hope your wife, girlfriend, boyfriend or whoever is happy with you. Get over yourself. It is folks like you that need to go after the bad guys, not the law abiding.

Here is another. Violent crime is DOWN DOWN over the last 20 years. Agree???? Yet, there are WAY more liberal CCW laws, way more folks, and way more guns. Agree??? I know we have WAY WAY many guns in America. The folks that shouldn't shouldn't.

Have you wrapped your mind around the statistics that the Federal Government has prosecuted like 70, out of 77,000 folks that LIED under oath and pain of prosecution on the FFL form, trying to buy a gun? Mental cases....

That turd that stole an AR and killed those firemen, had been let out of jail. He had killed his grandmother with a hammer. He, like most killers, are ex cons. MOST of the folks are not. MOST of the folks are law abiding. GET off their BACKS!!!



AO. Do you own a gun for protection? Ever fire a gun?

[Wise One]

-you live in a rural area to avoid urban violence
-you live in a conservative rural area because it is safer

Jeez, where do you get this stuff? How is rural violence somehow more appetizing than urban violence?

The relationship between population density (or urbanization) and violence is complex, but results tend to show that the more urbanized regions are safer.

The 6 lowest population density states also have the highest violence rates per capita! Alaska is the most violent of all and is the least dense of all!

Most everything that comes out of a gunny's mouth is ideological belief. Fact-based reality means nothing to these guys.

[crux]

Surely, she is trying to protect her privacy. Do you respect this? Amy. I have chided you. You have "foe filtered" me.

Aside from the fact that you drive a luxury auto, don't you recognize a few realities?

-you have a right to defend your life
-you have a right to defend your children
-your right to defend life is NATURAL
-Nation States turn on their own people
-Democratically elected national governments turn on their people
-free men and women should be allowed the means to defend themselves
-you live in a rural area to avoid urban violence
-you live in a conservative rural area because it is safer
-urban violence is a problem
-guns are tools
-personal choice is important
-you should be free to choose whether or not to own an effective self defense weapon
-the shooting stops when the bad guy is confronted by a good guy with a gun
-criminals break law

As to the video, you are clearly biased. This is a strong, feminine, independent woman. She is knowledgeable. She is capable and she is no threat to you. She would be your best neighbor. She would have the resolve to protect you in the theater. She would reach out to you when car jacked, or mugged. I just don't get your perspective...

[Amy Probenski]

What's she afraid of with all that firepower? All masked up, like an outlaw in a old bad western movie.
These videos are complete bullshit, just the old NRA "crime" focus when our real problem is quite different.
These guys think we're stupid, trying to scare us with phantom dangers so we won't notice the real dangers they themselves present.

[crux]

Listen to this well spoken woman. http://www.youtube.com/user/faliaphotog ... ture=watch

Neck, Nudge, AO and Giggler, oh, and Buck, amy P. and really 'dog too, are lost causes. It occurs to me though that other independent free thinking personally responsible liberty loving men and women might happen upon this discussion.

I like these videos from an informed practiced woman. She is authoritative and not some sheep. Enjoy.

I like her presentations on CCW, like: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B68ILSzg ... w&index=58

And: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4izM0fiz ... cHvrMBFdfw

___________________________________________________________________________________________________

The rest of you, stop turning over your Liberty to the Governmnent! Wake up!

If you can't move back to New York, Cali, New Jersey or some other Progressive Utopia.

[Neck-aint-red]

[crux]

I would say the majority of informed law abiding gun owners would disagree with you. Nudge. What is your home protection gun. Are you in need of personal protection. Better yet, do you wish to retain the liberty to obtain a handgun, shotgun or rifle. Do you fear governmental tyranny. Gangs. Narco traffickers on the border. Ethnic violence. Rape. Do you feel any need to have the means to protect you children. Do you have a restraining order out on anyone. Stalked. Do you walk home from work at night in an urban area. Do you ever worry there is no restraint or check to police power. A Police State, right or left. Do you value personal responsibility and choice when it comes to self defense and the defense of your family. If the shooting stops when the bad guy gets confronted why do you favor so restricting legal gun owners.

The article you linked to DERIDED the legal gun owner, Nancy Lanza. She was irresponsible given the state of her son, and her lack of security of her weapons. I can not abide such nonsensical crap from Slate. I would comment in full if I thought it worth it. Basically, Obama is a danger. The same arguments reign today as 20 years ago, yet there are many MILLIONS more citizens AND guns, and yet, less murder and violent crime. Well, we do have gun-free zones now, where the free thinker is no longer at liberty to exercise their natural right, as expressed in the constitution.

292,000,000 folks killed by their governments in the last 1000 years according to one estimate. Tyrannical DEMOCRACIES killing their own and others around the world just in the last 150 years, built upon gun bans. France. Japan. Germany. Italy. Spain. Mexico. Total gun ban. This America. Do you respect the Bill of Rights or not. The 2nd amendment is important. The NRA is a force for good and liberty. I will just have to disagree with you and fight you in the battle of ideas. Peace out, Live Long and Prosper...