Our government, then and now

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Wise One
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Re: Our government, then and now

Postby Wise One » 2016 Nov 01 09:22

Cannoneer wrote:I take issue with your interpreation of the amendment. It means congress cannot make a law establishing a religion or interfering with the free practice of religion. This was put in the constitution because the founding fathers did not want us to go the way of Europe,but it only applies to the federal government. Not to the several states.
Wrong. Both the plain language of the Amendment, and centuries of interpretation by SCOTUS, support my reading. The Constitution does not say what you or I would wish it to say ... it says what SCOTUS says it says. I hate that SCOTUS rendered Citizens United and a perverted interpretation of the 2nd Amendment, but whether I agree or not that is presently the law of the land.

You appear to be unaware of a fundamental principle embedded in the Constitution, equal protection under the law as stated in the 14th Amendment. Individual constitutional rights apply with equal force in and to ALL of the states. I really recommend that you read the Constitution. It is worth your time.

Cannoneer wrote:Are you going to address the issue of Arizona?
Why should I? Immigration, in all its aspects, is the province of the federal government. States are acting unconstitutionally when they arrogate such powers unto themselves. You and I may differ over how well the federal government is exercising that power, but it is theirs exclusively to exercise.

:coffee:
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Cannoneer
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Re: Our government, then and now

Postby Cannoneer » 2016 Nov 01 20:53

I have a complete copy of the constitution and I do read it and understand it and I served to defend it. And I think all Americans should learn it.
I know what the supreme court says about the so called seperation of church and state.
It does apply only to the federal government. When the constitution was adopted all 13 of the states had some form of state religon affiliation and that situation continued for years.

If Arizona wanted to defend its borders from foreign nationals crossing its borders illigally it was right to do so.

To call that an immigration situation is a very long leap. But our current administration can make a leap like that with no problem.

That's why I think you should respond..

Back to my premise, The supreme makes law de facto by its decisions.

And the president makes law by decree.

And congress could do something about it and they don't.

And certainly you hate that the 2nd amendment gives the people the right to keep and bear arms.
If we lose that right we will no longer be a free people.

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Wise One
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Re: Our government, then and now

Postby Wise One » 2016 Nov 01 22:31

Cannoneer wrote:Back to my premise, The supreme makes law de facto by its decisions.
And the president makes law by decree.
Nope and nope. Congress makes law. When differences arise about what the law actually means, as they often do, then the Supreme Court resolves those differences. These are often close calls because the law is drafted poorly, or because it is contradicted by other laws, or because it violates the Constitution.

The President is limited to issuing executive orders. Perhaps you do not know what an executive order is. It is an administrative order to departments of the federal government, and only to federal entities. An Executive Order must comply with law. It is an administrative/management instruction to federal entities on how best to conduct their activities to comply with the law. It can never contradict, or make new, law. If an when that happens, the Supreme Court will slap it down.

Cannoneer wrote:And congress could do something about it and they don't.
Yes and no. In many cases they don't act because they vote NOT to act. In other cases they cannot act because what some members want fundamentally contradicts the Constitution ... which Congress has no power to override. That is what the "separation of powers" is all about.

:coffee:
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Crux
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In the mud

Postby Crux » 2016 Nov 02 13:34

Stuck.

We are living in the soft counter coup, the 2nd American Revolution, and wiseone, a complete FOOL, is going to lecture us on the Constitution?

HILLARY IS DONE. SHE'S COOKED. TRUMP is a third party independent candidate. Figure this out Virginia.

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Cannoneer
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IS THE UNITED STATES REALLY UNITED?

Postby Cannoneer » 2018 Apr 05 11:52

In my opinion the answer is NO?
We have a large segment of our population doing everything it can to undermine a dully electer president for the simple reason that they are upset that their candidate didn't win.
Even though a sovereign nation has a right to evect people who enter their country illigally there are elected officials in our country who interfere with that process and some judges go along with those elected officials in spite of the law.
Even a blind man can see our racial divisions. And I do mean every race. Each group pitting itself against the others. We have all become hyphenated Americans. Based on either race or national origin. We are not a melting pot but a stew.
Riots have become commonplace. People who are here illigally march in our streets waving defiant banners with no fear of being apprehended.
E PLURIBUSUNUM is on our great seal. I think E PLURI US PLURIBUS better suits the way things are today.

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Wise One
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Re: Our government, then and now

Postby Wise One » 2018 Apr 06 00:06

We have many people, many groups, many interests ... all with their own notions of what is best for us and our country.

And so it has been since the first days of the United States. I love our diversity, the different points of view contending for acceptance, the struggle ever to make life better.

We can be United in supporting many paths, to accommodate us all ... rather than forcing all to travel down the same path, chosen by an authoritarian who aspires to be a dictator.

:coffee:
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Cannoneer
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Re: Our government, then and now

Postby Cannoneer » 2018 Apr 06 00:57

Once again wise one, or should I say Stonewall? You don't have a clue of what makes a Nation of united people. This country used to be one.
And why did you bring up the president in reply to my post?
Everything you wrote is only your opinion and its all wrong.
OMG your ignorance knows no bounds.

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Coondog
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Re: Our government, then and now

Postby Coondog » 2018 Apr 07 16:34

Yeah, but you said.........

We have a large segment of our population doing everything it can to undermine a dully electer president for the simple reason that they are upset that their candidate didn't win


You should be used to that. Its been that way since the beginning, and became rabid with the 2008 election of Obama. Oh, the cries of Treason and Tyranny. But, why rehash the long years of the party of, "No!"? We still have a congress that wants to do nothing to actually solve problems and issues. And, what could be more divisive than abruptly ending DACA...a program that was working fine? Dropping the Paris Climate Accord for no good reason? Bad mouthing American companies. Pardoning renegade racist Sheriffs?

The presidency used to be an esteemed office. It has been diminished over the past 16 months to the point where no sane child would aspire to it...by a man who lies consistently and blatantly misuses the position for personal enrichment. Dragging out political smears in front of Boy Scouts and 4 year old egg hunters on the White House lawn. .

These (and others) are the things that divide us. Those who find fault with this and those who don't. If I believed in armed resistance to the government (which I don't believe is feasible) I'd say to you, "This is the time!"

Coondog :dontknow:

And Russians! Russians here. Russians there. What could Putin possibly have on Trump that's more vile than what we already know? And, what's the deal with the NRA and Russians and Bolton?

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Cannoneer
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Re: Our government, then and now

Postby Cannoneer » 2018 Apr 07 17:12

THAY'S BULL COONDOG.

THIS CRAP STARTED BEFORE TRUMP TOOK OFFICE. AND ITS NEVER BEEN THIS BAD IN THE WHOLE HISTORY OF THE COUNTRY.

I never advocated armed resistance to the government. An armed citizenry is what keeps tyrants in line by the meer possibility of armed resistance.

That is why the right to keep and bear arms is in the constitution