The Battle Flag

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Cannoneer
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The Battle Flag

Postby Cannoneer » 2015 Aug 29 10:36

Because Rockbridge County had only one vote against secession I'm wondering how you as fellow descendants of those Rockbridge citizens feel about the Battle Flag And the bad rap it's getting.
I'm proud of my Great Grandfather and his brothers who answered the call with the first and second Rockbridge Artillery and fought for States Rights and the right to leave a Union that was ignoring it's own constitution.
Are there any Southerners left in Rockbridge County?

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Crux
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Sure the Flag thing is way overblown....

Postby Crux » 2015 Aug 29 18:20

Cannoneer wrote:I'm proud of my Great Grandfather and his brothers who answered the call with the first and second Rockbridge Artillery and fought for States Rights and the right to leave a Union....


Look. I grew up in Michigan. My people are also "proud" to have joined up to fight for States Rights and the Union of States living under the Constitution. Now there is a lot of water under the bridge and we have to look back with clear eyes.

Firstly we have come a long way from "States Rights" over the last 100 years as we turn nearly EVERYTHING over to the FEDERAL government. The two Parties and the Fed are sovereign and We The People and the States are lessened.

Secondly you can not have pride in the efforts to save the institution of slavery in southern states, right? Make that clear please...

I totally get, as a Northerner, the sense of regional or State identity. I think it is important. I totally get a love of heritage. Of our history. I get the understanding of brave and loyal Forefathers. I get it all.

You are hopefully NOT saying in any way that you are proud of the efforts to maintain the institution of slavery that was a key factor in the CW.

Right?

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Cannoneer
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Re: The Battle Flag

Postby Cannoneer » 2015 Aug 29 19:36

Well Crux I guess that you do not know your history.
Your reply is typical Yankee.
Did you know that five of the Union States were Slave states?
Virginia did not leave the Union until the State was ordered to raise troops to go into the Confederate States and put down the so called rebellion.
Did you know that Slavery did not end until the 13th amendment.
My ancestors were not slave holders. They were carpenters, wheelwrights, and farmers and they fought against an invading army that ravaged their homeland.
And I'm very proud of my Confederate ancestors.

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Coondog
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Re: The Battle Flag

Postby Coondog » 2015 Aug 30 12:02

Are there any Southerners left in Rockbridge County?


Judging from the number of pick-up trucks with big confederate battle flags flying from them......one might say the Southern Spirit is alive and well.

What we are experiencing is the wholesale re-definition of history without an historical perspective, which is rife with gray (and blue) areas of a complex time gone by. Little is said of the fact that the initial Federal attempts to invade and quash rebellion had to do more with preservation of the union than slavery. The question over the right of succession is strangely applied in the necessity to re-apply for admission if succession was not legitimate in the first place. Little is mentioned these days about John Brown, as little is said of the efforts of the North as a matter of policy to inspire as Slave Rebellion, which never happened much to the dismay or the North and relief of the South. One might ponder, why not?

Actually, much is written on these subjects, but likely few involved in the current rhetoric have taken the time to educate themselves beyond inflammatory headlines and maybe they saw Roots.

This belated fervor over ancient representations of symbolism is somewhat in recognition of prior lapses, perhaps in morality by not just the South, but the entire country.....and somewhat misplaced demonization of a symbol over it's misuse and abuse, which comes and goes according to the newsworthy prevalence of perverted 'white trash' like the KKK.

Coondog is also irked to have his grandmother, proud member of the Daughters of the Confederacy, bad mouthed when the only remotely racist thing she ever did was call Coondog a Pickaninny.

Coondog :tiphat:

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Crux
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Re: The Battle Flag

Postby Crux » 2015 Aug 30 16:12

I am not sure anything I said is wrong, out of order or decried by you at all Cannoneer.

Maybe you will adress my questions to you? I realize most Southerners were not slave holders, and I realize the dirty entanglements Northern Banking interests and others in the North had that helped maintain the slave reality. History is rich and quirky. Just like reality now. I totally think the PC over-reach on Jefferson Davis statues, the Battle Flag, etc are silly and actually not helpful. Still....

Crux wrote:Secondly you can not have pride in the efforts to save the institution of slavery in southern states, right? Make that clear please...
You are hopefully NOT saying in any way that you are proud of the efforts to maintain the institution of slavery that was a key factor in the CW.
Right?


Care to say something? It will help me to hear you elucidate.

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Cannoneer
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Re: The Battle Flag

Postby Cannoneer » 2015 Aug 30 17:27

Curx,
I have never thought that slavery was good, and my ancestors did not fight to maintain slavery. No person should own another person.
They fought against a vicious invader that came into their State and made war on civilians.
As for your ancestors, if they fought for States Rights they were wearing grey.
I think it would be a good idea for you to study the issues that brought on the war.
If you spend the time to look for it you may also discover evidence that "Honest Abe" orchestrated the battle at Fort Sumter.

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Crux
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'preciate it

Postby Crux » 2015 Aug 31 07:19

Thank you. Have a good day.

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Cannoneer
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Re: The Battle Flag

Postby Cannoneer » 2015 Sep 12 01:25

Is there anybody left in Rockbridge county who gives a s--t about Virginia's stand in the war between the States, why the State sided with the Confederate States, or why the battle flag is being trashed?

Maybe you all believe the BS that's being taught in schools or maybe you have no idea what is written in the constitution about the limits it puts on the Federal Government.

Maybe I don't belong on this Forum.

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Coondog
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Re: The Battle Flag

Postby Coondog » 2015 Sep 12 12:32

Of course there are, Big Gun!

But, not the people who should most covet and nurture the truth of the matter.

Quite by accident, while moving some books and such, a booklet was discovered by your humble narrator published in 1921 for the Lee Memorial Fund and dedicated to the Daughters of the Confederacy. The title is Robert E. Lee Soldier Patriot Educator.....with special reference to his life and services at Washington and Lee University Lexington, VA.

This illustrated pamphlet begins. beneath a photo of Captain Robert E. Lee, U.S.A., with, "Washington and Lee!"....ad is rife with phraseology like:

Washington and Lee! Here is ever perceived the intangible form of General Lee's luminous character, towering above his fellows, and still being discovered reaching into greater and greater perspectives as passing time clarifies the vision and purifies the hearts of men.


Keeping in mind that the Daughters of the Confederacy were an integral entity in the expansion and restoration of the Chapel in the 1920's,
W&L's own website reveals:

In 1930, Washington and Lee's Board of Trustees granted a request from the United Daughters of the Confederacy (UDC) to display original Confederate battle flags from different regiments of the Army of Northern Virginia in Lee Chapel near the statue, "The Recumbent Lee."

Arguments that the flags are not "historically original to the shrine" or "reproductions" to justify removal are shamefully disrespectful to the DAR and their historical contribution to the very existence of the memorial.

The Lee Memorial Fund, the booklet reads, is being established:

...to effect the reconstruction of this building and for it's continuous custodianship, that the impress of General Lee's personality may be constantly exerted as a living force for the uplift of men everywhere, and that the tradition of his loyalty, grace and purity may be ever renewed, to continue a most precious legacy to State, Section, and Nation.


Washington and Lee, it would seem, is attempting to unceremoniously bury Lee's legacy a second time by distancing themselves from all things Lee, except his horse, and now refusing to allow the descendants of the very people who propped up W&L in bleaker times to even assemble within the memorial they helped to establish.

Washington and Lee! An institution of higher learning which, rather than embrace standards of historical accuracy, has bartered it's soul in the interest of political correctness to a small group who are at best temporary, inherently political, but totally lacking in correctness. The institution has turned it's back on the primary reasons for it's continued existence and revival from ruins.

The attitude toward Lee at W&L has devolved to, "Screw you, but not the horse you rode in on!"

Yes, Big Gun, you are not the only one who thinks this is a bad joke.

Coondog :banghead:

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Cannoneer
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Re: The Battle Flag

Postby Cannoneer » 2015 Sep 12 18:16

Thank you Coondog, It's good to hear that at least one person on this forum has a respect for truth.
As a side note as to why it matters to me. if you cross the street from Washington and Lee to VMI you will see four cannons in front of Jackson's statue.
My great grandfather James Strickler and his older brother William Strickler were cannoneers on those guns at First Manassas and stayed with the First Rockbridge Artillery until the end. They were not slave holders and didn't fight to keep that rotten institution going. They believed the constitution gave any State the right to leave the Union in peace and were willing to fight for that right. And I'm a little touchy about people branding them as racists or claiming the banner they fought under is a racist symbol. It also upsets me to see racists waving that banner. It's not their banner and it should not be displayed by them.

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Crux
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Re: The Battle Flag

Postby Crux » 2015 Sep 13 09:11

Coondog wrote:Washington and Lee, it would seem, is attempting to unceremoniously bury Lee's legacy a second time by distancing themselves from all things Lee, except his horse, and now refusing to allow the descendants of the very people who propped up W&L in bleaker times to even assemble within the memorial they helped to establish.

Washington and Lee! An institution of higher learning which, rather than embrace standards of historical accuracy, has bartered it's soul in the interest of political correctness to a small group who are at best temporary, inherently political, but totally lacking in correctness. The institution has turned it's back on the primary reasons for it's continued existence and revival from ruins.

The attitude toward Lee at W&L has devolved to, "Screw you, but not the horse you rode in on!"

Yes, Big Gun, you are not the only one who thinks this is a bad joke.


WOW. Great post. Coondog at his best...

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Cannoneer
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Re: The Battle Flag

Postby Cannoneer » 2016 Aug 30 00:11

THE SOUTHERN BANNER

It was not a racist symbol,
If you research it you'll know.
Where it was upon the field,
Showed the soldiers where to go.

A blue St. Andrews cross,
On a field of scarlet red.
Men of courage dressed in grey,
Followed where that banner led.

Their homes had been invaded,
By a ruthless Northern hoard.
Forcing Lincolns will upon them,
Using bayonet, fire and sword.

They rallied round that banner,
And they followed it with pride.
On a hundred battle fields,
Where so many of them died.

So don't disrespect that banner,
For the banner's not to blame,
When its being waved in hatred,
By some folks who'd bring it shame.

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Neck-aint-red
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Re: The Battle Flag

Postby Neck-aint-red » 2017 Mar 07 13:55

This is reality.

The Confederacy was a con job on whites.

And still is.

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Cannoneer
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Re: The Battle Flag

Postby Cannoneer » 2017 Mar 08 12:02

I read that article and it's just more of the same Bull S--t that's being pushed by people who don't know what they'e talking about.

Because this forum is in Rockbridge County, Virginia I thought you folks would know more about this subject than a bunch of politically correct northerners.

All of the Confederate States did not secede over slavery. slavery was the main issue for the first seven States that left the Union and formed their own government. The States never gave up the fact they were sovereign. Before the Constitution every state was a government unto itself. If you read article one of the constitution you will notice that The several States only gave up enough of their sovereignty to the Federal Government in order for it to function. They kept the rest.

As a nation the Confederacy requested the Union to remove its troops from all of the Southern forts and sent a three men to Washington on a mission to discuss peace between the two governments three months before the battle at Fort Sumter. The Lincoln Administration refused to meet with them. The Union had removed its troops from all but two forts in the South.

The South laid siege to Fort Sumter and Requested the Union remove its troops with a message that the Fort would not be fired on unless the Union Government attempted to resupply or reinforce it. In response the Union Government sent ships to resupply and reinforce the fort. The South fired first. Nobody was hurt in the battle and the Union Commander of the fort asked for permission to fire a salute before leaving and permission was granted. One of the cannons exploded, killing one man and wounding another.

As a result The Union Government sent notice to all States remaining in the union to raise troops to go into the Confederate States and force them back into the Union by force of arms.

Four States refused to do that because they recognized that as sovereign States they had a right to leave the Union. The four States are Virginia, North Carolina, Arkansas and Tennessee. Five Slave States remained in the Union. My great grandfather and two of his brothers joined the First Rockbridge Artillery and a third brother joined the second Rockbridge Artillery. They did not have slaves and knew slavery was wrong but they did believe Virginia was a sovereign State and they fought against the Northern army that invaded their home land and I'm proud of them.


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