Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

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Crux
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Of Course.

Postby Crux » 2015 Apr 25 18:40

Of course over 5000 chemical warheads, artillery shells and aviation bombs were found across Iraq.
Of course our soldiers were exposed to these as they were destroyed.
Of course Iraq had and used several weapons systems denied them as per their surrender agreements under the U.N.
Of course in Afghanistan, 2/3 of our soldiers killed in action happened not under Bush's ROE, but Obama's.
Of course Saddam killed 35,000 of his own people EACH year, not 50,000 total.
Of course the cost of both wars was 2.2 trillion over 10 years not 6 trillion under Bush.
Of course so called liberals like coondog have said that Bush both manipulated the price of oil UP, and down, to his political advantage.
Of course we have neither gained, seized, kept or been awarded ANY oil fields, claims or rights to Iraqi oil.
Of course the history of militant jihad did not start with George Bush.
Of course Libya gave up it's chemical and biological weapons because it was cowed by our actions.
Of course we do not know what weapons were trucked out to Syria before the war in Iraq.
Of course Iraq violently ignored U.N. security resolutions to epic proportions, which is epic for a middle east country.
Of course there were AQ training camps in Iraq.
Of course Saddam and AQ were cozy.
Of course Saddam had and used WMD.
Of course Saddam maintained the capability to produce WMD.
Of course the whole world including Russia, Britain, France, Kerry, Hillary and Biden were convinced Iraq had WMD.
Of course coondog is a blowhard...

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Sweetness 'n Light
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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby Sweetness 'n Light » 2015 Apr 26 13:55

You are right crux about all those things cause the Islamers are always doing everything to hurt America and the sooner we realize it the better off everybody will be, huh? And the illegal aileens who cross our border are all the same.

And the liberal socialist Obama in the white house is all for it , cause I even heard him on the TV today when he said he prays 5 times a day like the Islamers do so I think there he is a Islamer socialist Kenyan cause he said so himself maybe.

And he already killed an American last week with a drone which is what he wants to do to all of us maybe so I think the best thing would be if one of those drones gets his address "by mistake" in the white house, maybe? That would teach him a good lesson maybe if his whole family gets blowed up, huh?

Love and kisses

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Coondog
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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby Coondog » 2015 Apr 26 13:58

OF COURSE:

If we had NOT idiotically invaded Iraq, the delusional list just provided would not be necessary. This feeble effort to justify what was done and deflect on whose fault it is one of the reasons we're still neck deep in this catastrophic goat rope.

Effort will not be made to debunk the ridiculous litany of 'of courses'. Already been done. Again and again. If it hasn't gotten through by now.....well, what's the use?

Coondog :surrend:

Just one question! When did the term "Weapons of Mass Destruction" get redefined so haphazardly? For all of our many dawg years, WMD meant nuclear weapons. All of a sudden, it became anything nasty enough to scare the bejesus out of a squeamish American public.

"Saddam killed a bunch of his own people with newly defined WMDs! The fact that it happened ten years ago when we didn't give a good rats ass is beside the point. Be afraid! Be very afraid"

:beatdead:

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Wise One
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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby Wise One » 2015 Apr 26 14:08

Coondog wrote:When did the term "Weapons of Mass Destruction" get redefined so haphazardly? For all of our many dawg years, WMD meant nuclear weapons. All of a sudden, it became anything nasty enough to scare the bejesus out of a squeamish American public.

Yes! Republican use of "WMD" represents the world's most fluid and imprecise use of any term. Of course, it actually means nuclear weapons, but now ...

A tank of disinfecting chlorine gas found at Iraqui town's drinking water treament plant? WMD, kill the bastards.

How about Weapons of Destruction with the Masses? Millions of guns and assault rifles galore, in the hands of every redneck, psychopath, and now even children in the ever-more-dumbass South? Why that's just good ole Murcan "We needs 'em to protect my family."

:coffee:
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Crux
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You can not run from facts.

Postby Crux » 2015 Apr 26 15:05

This is a list of truths. You are right. They have all been laid out as TRUE. You two are so ignorant... Really.
This is a list of REMEMBERED FACTS. I have paid closer attention to these reports and reporting, and remember....

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Crux
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Dumb and Dumber??

Postby Crux » 2015 Apr 26 21:01

Wise One wrote:
Coondog wrote:When did the term "Weapons of Mass Destruction" get redefined so haphazardly? For all of our many dawg years, WMD meant nuclear weapons. All of a sudden, it became anything nasty enough to scare the bejesus out of a squeamish American public.

Yes! Republican use of "WMD" represents the world's most fluid and imprecise use of any term. Of course, it actually means nuclear weapons, but now ...


1994 US Code
Title 18 - CRIMES AND CRIMINAL PROCEDURE
PART I - CRIMES
CHAPTER 113B - TERRORISM1
Sec. 2332a - Use of weapons of mass destruction

§2332a. Use of weapons of mass destruction

(a) Offense.—A person who uses, or attempts or conspires to use, a weapon of mass destruction—

(1) against a national of the United States while such national is outside of the United States;
(2) against any person within the United States; or
(3) against any property that is owned, leased or used by the United States or by any department or agency of the United States, whether the property is within or outside of the United States,
shall be imprisoned for any term of years or for life, and if death results, shall be punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life.

(b) Definitions.—For purposes of this section—
(1) the term “national of the United States” has the meaning given in section 101(a)(22) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(22)); and
(2) the term “weapon of mass destruction” means—
(A) any destructive device as defined in section 921 of this title;
(B) poison gas;
(C) any weapon involving a disease organism; or
(D) any weapon that is designed to release radiation or radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life.

(Added Pub. L. 103–322, title VI, §60023(a), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 1980.)

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

crux -waywaywayway more right than wrong...
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

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Wise One
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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby Wise One » 2015 Apr 26 21:54

You're right. There was a formal redefinition in 1994. Who knew?
any "destructive device" as defined in Title 18 USC Section 921: any explosive, incendiary, or poison gas - bomb, grenade, rocket having a propellant charge of more than four ounces, missile having an explosive or incendiary charge of more than one-quarter ounce, mine, or device similar to any of the devices described in the preceding clauses
any weapon designed or intended to cause death or serious bodily injury through the release, dissemination, or impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals or their precursors
any weapon involving a disease organism
any weapon designed to release radiation or radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life
any device or weapon designed or intended to cause death or serious bodily injury by causing a malfunction of or destruction of an aircraft or other vehicle that carries humans or of an aircraft or other vehicle whose malfunction or destruction may cause said aircraft or other vehicle to cause death or serious bodily injury to humans who may be within range of the vector in its course of travel or the travel of its debris.

But I'm with Coondog. Yes, a grenade with 4.01 oz of explosives is dangerous and lethal, but it's something of an assault on language to classify its effects as "Mass Destruction." A nuclear bomb, yes. Large nerve gas bomb that can kill thousands, yes.

:coffee:
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Crux
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So I am right again.

Postby Crux » 2015 Apr 27 08:04

Wise One wrote:You're right. There was a formal redefinition in 1994. Who knew?


:tiphat: Chemical weapons are WMD. We found thousands across Iraq. Our soldiers were exposed. We destroyed WMD. Saddam used WMD. Libya gave up WMD. We do not know what WMD was moved to Syria. Saddam maintained WMD and the capacity to produce and pursue WMD including nuclear by the way. WMD was codified under BILL CLINTON in U.S. Law, not Bush. Don't play word games...

Crux wrote:Of course over 5000 chemical warheads, artillery shells and aviation bombs were found across Iraq.
Of course our soldiers were exposed to these as they were destroyed.

Of course Iraq had and used several weapons systems denied them as per their surrender agreements under the U.N.
Of course in Afghanistan, 2/3 of our soldiers killed in action happened not under Bush's ROE, but Obama's.
Of course Saddam killed 35,000 of his own people EACH year, not 50,000 total.
Of course the cost of both wars was 2.2 trillion over 10 years not 6 trillion under Bush.
Of course so called liberals like coondog have said that Bush both manipulated the price of oil UP, and down, to his political advantage.
Of course we have neither gained, seized, kept or been awarded ANY oil fields, claims or rights to Iraqi oil.
Of course the history of militant jihad did not start with George Bush.
Of course Libya gave up it's chemical and biological weapons because it was cowed by our actions.
Of course we do not know what weapons were trucked out to Syria before the war in Iraq.

Of course Iraq violently ignored U.N. security resolutions to epic proportions, which is epic for a middle east country.
Of course there were AQ training camps in Iraq.
Of course Saddam and AQ were cozy.
Of course Saddam had and used WMD.
Of course Saddam maintained the capability to produce WMD.

Of course the whole world including Russia, Britain, France, Kerry, Hillary and Biden were convinced Iraq had WMD.
Of course coondog is a blowhard...

_________________________________________

You have just supported several items on my list by your new found education as to WHAT exactly WMD is defined as.
The rest of the list is accurate too, of course, as reported and noted and remembered by me. Thank you wiseone...
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

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Wise One
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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby Wise One » 2015 May 06 18:12

1Centrist wrote:You know, Crux, here's the major difference in our view of things: I've actually lived or worked in a number of hotspots around the world.
I cannot tell you how refreshing it is to see views here that are informed by experience and thought rather than ideology and reflex. (Not that even I don't appreciate watching the occasional metaphorical mud-wrestling match.)

1Centrist wrote:Well, Crux, it seems your rationale for U.S. use of force is moral imperative. In realpolitik — the reality of our world — nations don't operate on the basis of morality, which is subjective and often based in religious belief. Nations act on the international stage to protect themselves and to gain economic advantage, which in the final analysis is just another way of protecting themselves.
Such realism will get you nowhere with our friend. He's all about cockamamie extremist theories and other fictions.

:coffee:
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Sweetness 'n Light
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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby Sweetness 'n Light » 2015 May 07 12:25

I saw that the man who runs this thing called Stonewall made it look "broken" for a long time. I think he is lieing maybe cause he doesn't like me cause thats what happens lots of times, huh? After I posted this thing
Sweetness 'n Light wrote:You are right crux about all those things cause the Islamers are always doing everything to hurt America ... and Obama already killed an American last week with a drone which is what he wants to do to all of us maybe so I think the best thing would be if one of those drones gets his address "by mistake" in the white house, maybe? That would teach him a good lesson maybe if his whole family gets blowed up, huh?
he suddenly said that the forum is "broken" and it wouldnt work on our PC no matter what I did.

I think hes full of hocky puke, huh? No way he can stop me from saying the truth like a good American anyhow so now that he "fixed" it he maybe better watch his step, huh?

Love and kisses,

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Crux
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Re: Of Course.

Postby Crux » 2015 May 20 14:08

Crux wrote:Of course over 5000 chemical warheads, artillery shells and aviation bombs were found across Iraq.
Of course our soldiers were exposed to these as they were destroyed.
Of course Iraq had and used several weapons systems denied them as per their surrender agreements under the U.N.
Of course in Afghanistan, 2/3 of our soldiers killed in action happened not under Bush's ROE, but Obama's.
Of course Saddam killed 35,000 of his own people EACH year, not 50,000 total.
Of course the cost of both wars was 2.2 trillion over 10 years not 6 trillion under Bush.
Of course so called liberals like coondog have said that Bush both manipulated the price of oil UP, and down, to his political advantage.
Of course we have neither gained, seized, kept or been awarded ANY oil fields, claims or rights to Iraqi oil.
Of course the history of militant jihad did not start with George Bush.
Of course Libya gave up it's chemical and biological weapons because it was cowed by our actions.
Of course we do not know what weapons were trucked out to Syria before the war in Iraq.
Of course Iraq violently ignored U.N. security resolutions to epic proportions, which is epic for a middle east country.
Of course there were AQ training camps in Iraq.
Of course Saddam and AQ were cozy.
Of course Saddam had and used WMD.
Of course Saddam maintained the capability to produce WMD.
Of course the whole world including Russia, Britain, France, Kerry, Hillary and Biden were convinced Iraq had WMD.
Of course coondog is a blowhard...


18 points not refuted by wiseone. He declared victory as he lost 18 points. Off the top of ones mind. Recollection.
Not refuted. Not refutable. Unanswered. I respect my recollection and the fact that you miss remember so much...

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Coondog
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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby Coondog » 2015 May 20 17:25

Oh, the venerable crux returns. It inspires such happiness that there will ensue no effort at addressing any or all of the debunked, disproved, incredulous, speculative or just made up stories about Saddam and his nuclear arsenal and his flying camel.

At issue is only the one where "liberals like coondog" blame Bush for manipulating gas prices...etc. etc. blah, blah, blah. Coondog (that's spelled with a capital 'C') never in a million years credited Bush with the level of infamy or brains to carry out such a manipulation. Some similarly minded liberals may have thought so, but they would have been wrong.

Not to say that some folks very close to the presidency didn't have the influence, connections and requisite capacity for evil to carry out such shenanigans. But, somebody's always manipulating oil and gas prices, so why this is even on the list is a mystery.

Love to talk about the theory of Saddam shifting weaponry to Syria with whom Iraq hadn't even had diplomatic relations for like 17 years, but a promise is a promise.

Coondog :tiphat:

Whether or not "coondog is a blowhard" will be left up to historians to decide

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1Centrist
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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby 1Centrist » 2015 May 24 07:40

Another victory for AIPAC.
JERUSALEM (AP) — A senior Israeli official says Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has thanked the U.S. for blocking a global document at the United Nations aimed at ridding the world of nuclear weapons, a rare bright spot amid strained relations between the two countries.

The official says Netanyahu spoke to Kerry on Saturday. The official spoke on condition of anonymity as he wasn't authorized to discuss the call.

The document, rejected Friday, had called on the U.N.'s secretary-general to convene the Middle East conference no later than March 2016, regardless of whether Israel and its neighbors agreed on an agenda.

Israel is not a party to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and has never declared what is widely considered to be an extensive nuclear weapons program. A conference might force Israel to acknowledge it.

Though a pyrrhic victory at best.
:shakeh:

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fangz1956
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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby fangz1956 » 2015 May 24 12:37

Image
Ever looked at someone and thought "the wheel is turning but the hamster is dead"?

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Crux
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To fail to understand.

Postby Crux » 2015 May 27 13:43

Fangz, you have failed to understand the apocalyptic drive of ISIS. Islam, lived out fundamentally by Sunni Fanatics.

Bush, the very least righteously went to war, as supported by Hillary, Kerry, Reid, Pelosi, a broad coalition THEN, a fight very similar to what Obama manages. We can argue the virtues of both approaches.

There is a militant macro political religious struggle going on here. Fought by morally different foes. Your sympathy with ISIS, seeing it as a reasonable response to the JUST ACTS of Bush. We will disagree but that cartoon...

It is not clever or funny. :hum: Really? It is just simplistic backslapping for some I think. That's it.

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Crux
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ISIS ADVANCES

Postby Crux » 2015 May 27 13:59

From 60 km outside Damascus to within 70 miles of Bahgdahd, ISIS is in control. Do you care? Righteous efforts to combat ISIS are ONGOING.
Since 9/11, since Bill Clinton, since the founding of Islam. There is a fight worth fighting here. No doubt about it. You know it too. :angel5:

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1Centrist
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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby 1Centrist » 2015 May 27 19:56

ISIL poses an immediate threat to the region, not to us. Iran, Turkey, Jordan, Lebanon, the Gulf States, Egypt, and Israel (not to mention Iraq and Syria) need to step up in spades. We and Europe should support. No U.S. boots on the ground!

BTW, how can a war be "righteous" when it was effected under false pretenses?

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Neck-aint-red
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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby Neck-aint-red » 2015 May 27 23:03

We really need to get our priorities back in line:

quarterIraqSS.jpg
quarterIraqSS.jpg (122.81 KiB) Viewed 2817 times

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Crux
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Assimilation(not)

Postby Crux » 2015 Jun 03 10:58

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfmywzjdtRM

This little video is fascinating.

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1Centrist
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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby 1Centrist » 2015 Jun 03 11:24

My takeaway is twofold: 1) religion really eff's you up; and 2) education is critical to a modern society.

Food for thought: How did all these folks get to Minnesota? There's a lot of Somalis in Augusta, Maine. How come? Might it be a result of our imperialistic wars?