Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

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Crux
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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby Crux » 2015 Apr 08 08:49

Easy. Look at post 911, Afghanistan and Iraq. That is fine. Bush led this nation to war. One was "the good war". One "the bad war".

The Taliban, AQ, Sadaam, Osama, and Islam surely had roles to play. The NEOCONS... Come on man. :shakeh:

Whatever. Don't deflect. I made a valid point don't you think? Israel seized and held lands towards its defense after the 67 war. The Sinai was given back by treaty with Egypt right? Gaza is in the control of the peaceful palestinians, and the Golon Heights and other lands are maintained and even developed to enhance the defense of Israel.

Centrist, you and I both know Arafat had PEACE in his hands! Israel wants nothing other than PEACE! Believe it, or not.

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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby 1Centrist » 2015 Apr 08 08:55

Of course Israel wants peace, just on its own terms and at the expense of non-Jewish people who've occupied the areas you mention in some cases for hundreds/thousands of years.

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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby Crux » 2015 Apr 08 09:06

The Jewish people are not new comers to The Land. Remember too, the non-Jewish people in Israel are more free, more prosperous, and have better lives than non-jewish people in most of the world! Except America. Israel IS. The state of Israel EXISTS. America IS. Everyone wants everything on their own terms.

I reject the terms of Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Muslim Brotherhood and so should you. Do you?

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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby 1Centrist » 2015 Apr 08 09:37

Let me state my views on the Middle East clearly:

1. I subscribe to realpolitik; might doesn't necessarily make right, but it does make reality.
2. The Jews and the non-Jews of the region both have practical reasons for their actions, and the animosity between them won't disappear any time soon.
3. The primary U.S. interest in the Middle East is oil, which lies under Arab feet.
4. U.S. policies in the area are biased toward Israel because our polticians require Jewish money and influence to get elected.
5. The Arabs with the oil see this bias clearly and don't like the U.S.
6. The U.S. therefore often works against its own interests in the region.

Got it?

Oh, and wrt your previous post, by what criterion is our adventure in Afghanistan a "good war"? Particularly if one is to judge by practical results.

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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby Crux » 2015 Apr 08 12:43

Post 911 going into Afghanistan to root out AQ and boot the Taliban was understandable. It was accomplished in short order. Now the sticky progressive good hearted part was the nation building that went on and on. In Iraq also. Throwing down Sadaam was understandable, but here again is where the "neocons" screw up. Nation building. I get the impetus, but far better to simply go to war, win the war, and go home.

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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby 1Centrist » 2015 Apr 08 14:13


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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby 1Centrist » 2015 Apr 09 09:53


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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby 1Centrist » 2015 Apr 19 09:14


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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby Wise One » 2015 Apr 19 09:35

"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby 1Centrist » 2015 Apr 19 09:49

I getcha, WO. I started out as a true believer cold warrior. After the Soviet Union imploded .... Well, what are you going to do with a limited skill set? :dontknow:

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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby 1Centrist » 2015 Apr 22 07:38


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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby Juggler » 2015 Apr 22 09:22

Yes, 1Centrist, They are very good at what they do. Like this:

Image

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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby Crux » 2015 Apr 22 12:08

No grasp of the existential or the sweep of history. Heck. No grasp of the last 35 years...

ISIS is deserving of violent confrontation on the battlefield, wherever the battle field is.

The left is too often too good at excusing thugs and jihadists.

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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby 1Centrist » 2015 Apr 22 13:05

I think it's more like the left isn't so anxious to send our folks into harm's way when there's no clear and present danger. Only GOP politicians and their rightwing hawkish base think ISIS presents an immediate existential threat to the U.S. that we must counter ASAP with all our might. And, of course, raising taxes to cover such an adventure would be out of the question.

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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby Crux » 2015 Apr 22 18:23

No clear and present danger... ISIS, like AQ, definitely got us in their sights. The very nature of what ISIS is needs to be grappled with.
We will just have to disagree on the existential threat. I see it. You don't. Fine.

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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby 1Centrist » 2015 Apr 22 19:40

Some people see a bogeyman under every bed, generally they watch the Fox News Channel and vote Republican. Let the Shias, Sunnis, Kurds, and Turks work it out while we protect the Straits of Hormuz and the Gulf oil fields, and concurrently sell arms to all concerned. As Coolidge said, “The chief business of the American people is business.”
:hail: $$$$$$

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How some view ISIS

Postby Crux » 2015 Apr 23 07:36


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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby 1Centrist » 2015 Apr 23 07:47

If I were in our government, I'd be more worried about mailmen with gyrocopters who actually understand the problem.

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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby Crux » 2015 Apr 23 08:03

Like Hillary pledging to raise 2.5 Billion towards her campaign, more than Obama/Romney combined? Mailmen with gyro-copters are not going nuclear, seeking the violent destruction of Israel and America, enslave little girls, or behead Christians on the beaches of the Mediterranean.

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Re: Islam, The Middle East, et. al.

Postby 1Centrist » 2015 Apr 23 08:11

Oh, so you're a bleeding-heart liberal, but only for foreigners. Of course, I bet you're not concerned about the ones we kill.


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