Song of the South Revisited

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Sweetness 'n Light
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Re: Song of the South Revisited

Postby Sweetness 'n Light » 2015 Jun 24 11:12

I am sick and tired when I am hearing all this stuff in the news about our historic Confederate Flag being disecrated by liberals and illegal aileens and even I hear that the good politicians in the South are turning tails between legs and vote to ban the flag. An even Walmart is banning it can you figure that out, cause its nuts, huh?

This is treason! Our fourfathers fought and died for that flag and just defended our honor cause the northern envaders wanted to take away slaves and cotton and the perfect order and good manners that everybody in the South had. Where do they go so crazy to attack this, huh?

Everybody white and negroe was happy and knew their place untill those envaders came and carpetbagged everything with there socialism. I think my husband and I will fly our sacred confederate flag maybe higher than ever now and let them pry it from our cold dead hands, huh?

Love and kisses ...

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Crux
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Not quite.

Postby Crux » 2015 Jun 26 08:18

1Centrist wrote:Symbology changes over time; it's a shame this one became about as socially abhorrent as the swastika.

Actually you are wrong. You can Google search "buy confederate flag" and you will find NO search results.
Try "buy NAZI flag" and you will find plenty. This is a story of politics and leftist PC and fear and silliness.

Here is a little Jim Webb:

http://dailycaller.com/2015/06/24/jim-w ... nfederacy/

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1Centrist
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Re: Song of the South Revisited

Postby 1Centrist » 2015 Jun 26 09:46

Crux, since when is being able to buy something a criterion of it being socially abhorrent? Keep in mind, BTW, that the companies pulled the items voluntarily; no government involved. OTOH, the swastika is officially banned in Germany because it represents a shameful part of its history. So, we're still the "land of the free."

S'nL, you should write for SNL.

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Wise One
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Re: Song of the South Revisited

Postby Wise One » 2015 Jun 26 11:36

Crux wrote:You can Google search "buy confederate flag" and you will find NO search results. ...This is a story of politics and leftist PC and fear and silliness.

You are SO full of bullshit.

:coffee:
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Crux
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AO...

Postby Crux » 2015 Jun 26 14:32

Click the SHOPPING tab second from left, on your link, dude.

https://www.google.com/search?q=buy+con ... NCSR&noj=1

Here is the NAZI shopping search, you arrogant fella:

https://www.google.com/search?biw=1067& ... W994RcIrwA

___________________________________________________________

I am NEVER full of BS. :coffee:

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Wise One
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Re: Song of the South Revisited

Postby Wise One » 2015 Jun 26 15:08

Your Google search string is

Code: Select all

https://www.google.com/search?q=buy+confederate+flag&tbm=shop&biw=1067&bih=718&ech=1&psi=dJqNVe_XDora-QGCzomoAw.1435343481074.5&ei=dJqNVe_XDora-QGCzomoAw&emsg=NCSR&noj=1

Whereas my search string is

Code: Select all

https://www.google.com/search?as_q=buy+confederate+flag&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=&as_occt=any&safe=images&as_filetype=&as_rights=&gws_rd=ssl

Evidently the "shopping" tab clamps things down, whereas the plain vanilla search limits nothing and gives over 16 million results. I agree that using the "shopping" tab returns nothing for "buy confederate flag" and a lot of German stuff but no flags for "buy nazi flag". Very strange and, I think, silly.

:coffee:
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Crux
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gee whiz

Postby Crux » 2015 Jun 26 16:14

I know the links are different. I think it beyond silliness. I just don't know why you are so harsh, with the "bullshit" shtick...

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Coondog
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Re: Song of the South Revisited

Postby Coondog » 2015 Jun 26 16:35

So....which flag were you wanting to buy? Confederate or Nazi?

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Neck-aint-red
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Re: Song of the South Revisited

Postby Neck-aint-red » 2015 Jun 30 21:09

I'd give the world to know ... for our friend, it would be a tough choice.

Oh, and here's what Southerners really mean when they get all weepy over "Heritage" as symbolized by the Confederate flag. Don't let them fool anybody.

:angry4:

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Coondog
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Re: Song of the South Revisited

Postby Coondog » 2015 Jun 30 22:50

A true redneck would appreciate the nuance behind southern affinity for General Lee's battle flag from that unfortunate penis measuring contest between West Pointers from various regions of the country.

This ridiculous side story has blossomed into the predictable backlash from idiots who have appropriated the flag for their own biased bill of fair against those who so flippantly demonize not only the cause, but the personages of those who mostly took umbrage to their homes being looted and burned by invading armies.

The idea that the armies of the North righteously attacked their unruly southern neighbors in order to free the slaves is being tossed about as sooth by many who have no concept of what the hell they're talking about. Were that the case, the emancipation proclamation would have logically been delivered prior to First Manassas.

The idea that slavery was simply nothing more than immorality in progress seems to be the driving force behind nonsense like Walmart refusing to bake Dukes of Hazard style cakes. Slaves, as it were, made up the bulk of economic wealth in the South at that time and like illegal aliens today, were indispensable to the agrarian southern economy. Cotton don't pick itself and Eli Whitney was just a few years too late to stave off what turned out to be a hell of a fight, but ultimately bad for everyone involved.

According to neo-pundits, the Confederate flag made a big comeback in the early sixties in response to proposed civil rights legislation. Completely ignored is the fact of the Civil War Centennial 1860's.....hello!). In 100 years, and since, the Confederate flag has been adopted by a lot of people for a lot of reasons.....some inoccuous......some not so good.

The fact is that there are few to none former slaves or Confederate soldiers about. Anyone who foolishly wastes emotional currency on this issue today is either pandering to someone, feigning non-existent outrage or they're a nut ball wearing a sheet. Coondog only addresses this issue due to delusions of pride and heritage.

Distortion of history and demonization of a flag and all it stands for is a stupid gesture. But, as we can see, stupid gestures on one side are responded to by equal and opposite stupid gestures on the other. That's just science!

Coondog :surrend:

Anybody remember what started all this in the first place?

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Neck-aint-red
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Re: Song of the South Revisited

Postby Neck-aint-red » 2015 Jul 01 10:32

Michael Paul Williams in the Richmond Times Dispatch wrote: (Good article)

Who woulda thunk, a century and a half later, that an establishment newspaper would finally get around to publishing a discussion of the obvious?

:surrend:

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Coondog
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Re: Song of the South Revisited

Postby Coondog » 2015 Jul 01 15:39

ISIS just blows stuff like that up! Different method, but the idea is the same.

One must feel sorry for all those northern Civil War re-enactors who won't have anybody to fake shoot at....but it's a small price to pay in the process of burying the past under a pile of PC manure.

Richmond, the arm pit of the South, can do whatever they want with their monuments. Maybe they can outsource the work to Arabs in ski masks who have recent experience in senseless destruction of history. Revel in all this nonsense if you will. But when they take the statue of Jackson out of the cemetery and put in a bird bath......well, tourists will not come here to see a bird bath and the monument to this stupidity will be a plethora of empty store fronts where gaggles of nick knack shops once flourished.

And he said to them, “Is a lamp brought in to be put under a basket, or under a bed, and not on a stand?
Mark 4:21

:hail: Coondog

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Neck-aint-red
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Re: Song of the South Revisited

Postby Neck-aint-red » 2015 Jul 02 00:53

He ain't here to speak for himself, but historians who know what they're talking about seem to think that one of our local dead Civil War generals would have spurned the stars and bars in this current controversy.

:surrend:

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Coondog
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Re: Song of the South Revisited

Postby Coondog » 2015 Jul 02 13:00

First, the battle flag of the Army of Northern Virginia is not the stars and bars, but it's a common mistake and we'll let that go.

Second, Lee's admirable position on the issue manifested itself at a time when wounds were literally still bleeding from four years of conflict, death and destruction. Lee was ultimately more honorable in defeat than anyone, with the possible exception of Lincoln, was in victory. So, if we are to consider ourselves to have progressed in any way in 150 years, we might divorce ourselves from left over emotions from long dead participants and take a more objective view of symbols from an intellectual perspective.

We are no less traitors to the crown because we won the Revolutionary War, and we are not ashamed of the Stars and Stripes because we lost in Viet Nam. Totem poles are not banned because somebody's ancestor died at the Little Big Horn. All this flag flap does is encourage those who would fly the confederate battle flag for all the wrong reasons.

It's a beautiful flag! But if it must be distained, let us refrain from demonizing everybody who had anything to do with it long, long ago.

Coondog :pat:

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Neck-aint-red
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Re: Song of the South Revisited

Postby Neck-aint-red » 2015 Jul 02 13:13

Good points, all. On the other hand, regarding
Coondog wrote: ... take a more objective view of symbols from an intellectual perspective. We are no less traitors to the crown because we won the Revolutionary War, and we are not ashamed of the Stars and Stripes because we lost in Viet Nam...

I don't think your analogy/examples quite apply, and here are counter-examples:
  • We do not normally fly the Union Jack over the White House to commemorate our British "heritage". They lost. It's our country. We moved on.
  • Provincial capitals in Vietnam, however sympathetic they might have been to the US, do not fly the US flag over their government buildings. We lost. They moved on.
Natch, individuals can do any fool thing they want to do. And "fool" is the impression flaggers convey. It's very clear to me what they intend to communicate and it's ugly.
:surrend:

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Coondog
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Re: Song of the South Revisited

Postby Coondog » 2015 Jul 02 18:53

Okay......perhaps that stuff about totem poles was a bit hyperbolic.

And as far as the flaggers are concerned, they're more Tea Partiers than anything else. According to the Advocate (and the Advocate is never wrong), even the Sons of the Confederacy can't abide them. And that "Boycott Lexington" nonsense cost them any empathy they might have garnered from this quarter.

Having aid that, their conception of symbolic meaning is as valid as anyone else's. No one ever fails a Rorschach Test......it's just that some interpretations raise serious questions regarding mental stability. They all look like bosoms to some of us! Is that wrong somehow?

The point is that display of a co-opted symbol by racist bastards does not necessarily mean that said racist bastards have a monopoly on the associated symbolism...........unless you hand it to them.

The current hysteria is handing it to them on a silver platter.......and, like cardboard on a bun from McDonalds, they're lovin' it. It re-establishes their power to be obnoxious.

Better to take it back from them. To those of us who hate to see a good symbol go to waste, that flag stands for tolerance, unity, peace, openness and co-existence. TUPOC!

Taking it back!

Coondog :surrend:


Reality is wrong. Dreams are for real.
Tupac Shakur

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1Centrist
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Re: Song of the South Revisited

Postby 1Centrist » 2015 Jul 05 07:13

In an effort to bring some levity to the situation, let me propose a new flag for the "New South":

Image

:toothy:

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1Centrist
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Re: Song of the South Revisited

Postby 1Centrist » 2015 Jul 05 17:07

Jeez!

To rename or not? Institutions reconsider honors for racists
<snip>
The June 17 slaying of nine black worshippers led to calls to curb displays of the Confederate flag after photos emerged showing the suspect posing with one and burning the U.S. flag. But it also has added urgency to discussions on whether it is time to do away with names given to schools, colleges and streets that have come to be seen in a new light in places far outside the South.

A petition is calling for Yale University in Connecticut to change the name of its residential Calhoun College, which honors 1804 alumnus John C. Calhoun, a prominent advocate of the slave plantation system who became a vice president and U.S. senator from South Carolina. The petition says the name, in place since the 1930s, represents "an indifference to centuries of pain and suffering among the black population."
<snip>
Other campaigns around the country include efforts to change the names of Lake Calhoun in Minneapolis and New York City's General Lee Avenue in Brooklyn, named after Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee. In Helena, Montana, officials will meet Wednesday to discuss whether anything should be done with a downtown memorial to fallen Confederate soldiers. The foundation was built in 1916 by the Daughters of the Confederacy.

The Confederate flag is one thing, given the modern use of it by some horrible people, but even that's not clear cut. This is just wrong! The moral reprehensibility of slavery wasn't as universally recognized 150+ years ago as it is today. Besmirching men of another era by holding them to today's standards is PC pandering overreach and similar to condemning the patriarchs of the Old Testament for some of their actions.
:shakeh:

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Coondog
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Histority

Postby Coondog » 2015 Jul 06 11:56

Thanks, Centrist 1. It's nice for one to know they're not the only wallflower at the St. Vitus dance.

Those who find Coondog's position ludicrous have seemingly failed to take notice of just how vulnerable we here locally are to the torches and pitchforks looming on the horizon.

We got streets galore with the names of evil racist sympathizers. Subdivisions, monuments, statues, cannons on display, embarrassing tourist attractions. Lee Chapel. Jackson House. Then there's VMI. State owned institution with a war memorial and a giant mural dedicated to pro-slave traitors at the battle of New Market.

It's probably not enough to begin purging this locality of all these atrocities by replacing statues and re-naming streets for current members of the zoning and architectural review boards. Although they would just love that, it will likely take entirely too long. The hysterical society would debate for years.

Several well placed drone strikes might get the job done quickly. We change the name of the rubble back to Campbell's Ford and survivors can feel well pleased with themselves.

This armageddonish nightmare may not all come to pass, but we're willing to bet some of it will.....unless tolerance and respect for others suddenly begins to run in all directions in this poor, screwed up country of ours.

Best to let dead confederate generals, statues and flags rest in peace, wherever the are now, stop belaboring the past and put all this energy into a future we all can abide.

Coondog :thumbup:

Counting flowers on the wall................

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1Centrist
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Re: Song of the South Revisited

Postby 1Centrist » 2015 Jul 06 21:08

the only wallflower at the St. Vitus dance

:laughing: