Confused

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historyforall
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Confused

Postby historyforall » 2011 Jul 07 15:00

Having been away for a work project for the last few months I refrained from going on this forum so I could come back with a new look. I am sad that not much has changed and I see that some arguments are still related to the 3rd grade level.

Having been exposed to how other groups around the country think I am greatly confused by what I see. How can you be for getting rid of laws but want more laws. Political groups who want to end the big governments and their meddling but want to meddle in others lives. Its the whole against abortion but for the death penalty argument all over again. Or the opposite for abortion but against the death penalty for some.

The biggest thing I am amazed at is how the exact same arguments that have been used over and over again are being used to try and stop something even though history shows everytime that you can't stop it in the long run. In this case gay marriage; I am not overly fond of the gay lifestyle unless its in the context of a 1940s movie but I understand that allowing it to happen is a benefit for those who want it to happen. The problem is that the arguments against are almost the exact language used to stop marriages of different races. You can't be the land of the free if you don't allow freedom no matter how bad a taste it leaves in your mouth. Its like the guy who was a deciding vote that ended up allowing women to have the right to vote. He was against the idea at first but when it came time to vote he pictured his mother and realized that he could not vote against her. I will always have respect for those who stand up for what is right even when they themselves do not support it, that is how we make the country great again.

I grew up a baptist but thankfully had good christian leaders not ones crusading for their own power control and benefits. Its Gods job to find the true sinners not mine.

This brings me to the groups that want to cram Gods law down everyones throat while warning against the rise of other religions. Whether its a bill to make christianity the only true religion of the country or something that bans other religions from being able to have a say in this country. I find it bordering on the very idea that they are trying to ban. If you are affraid of Islam spreading dont meet it with Crusader harshness but true open Christianity, that forgives the sinner and welcomes all into the holy light. I do not want the ground work set out that gives any religious group the right to tell me how I must think, act or worship, that also goes for someone elses idea of Christ.

The key word is Freedom. Before a law is passed it should be held to the question does it limit or restrict someones freedom or right. I am sure that no one would want to live in my vision of the world so stop trying to make everyone else live in yours.
I believe in the rights and freedoms of a person even when I don't support them on a moral or fundamental basis.

ParkerLongbaugh
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Re: Confused

Postby ParkerLongbaugh » 2011 Jul 07 16:14


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Crux
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Pro LIBERTY

Postby Crux » 2011 Jul 07 18:43

Give me an example of this "3rd grade level" silliness you postulate, coming from say, myself or Sam or some other RIGHT leaning voice, and be more specific AS IT RELATES TO YOUR PREVIOUS POST.

Some of us see a big difference between the termination of a baby in the womb, and the death sentence given to a convicted 1st degree murderer with special circumstances... My views are well laid out on this subject on another thread.

On Gay Marriage, there are gays and non-gays who see this issue as a deliberate and unnecessary poke in the eye of the traditional institution of marriage, and favor domestic partnership as law and terminology. Frankly the government should have no role in marriage/partnership contracts between consenting adults.

I am not a Christian, but decidedly agnostic. Still, I do not bash with wholesale abandon Christians or Christianity. I do see all Christians cramming their values down other folks throats. Surely there are some.

You really have to learn how to paint with a much broader brush. There are countless examples of Dems and Progressives using government as a coercive force for THEIR passions.

Easy there big fella...
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

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Sam
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Re: Confused

Postby Sam » 2011 Jul 09 06:49

Only in America could the people who believe in balancing the budget and sticking by the country's Constitution be thought of as
"extremists

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Re: Confused

Postby fangz1956 » 2011 Jul 09 12:52

Ever looked at someone and thought "the wheel is turning but the hamster is dead"?

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Sam
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Re: Confused

Postby Sam » 2011 Jul 09 13:10

Well Gal, I sure do appreciate your asking about my son. He is on a medication that is supposed to shrink the tumor and it has some serious side effects. He also has to rub a testerone cream on his chest three times a week. There are days when he can hardly get out of bed then days when he is fairly good. He is suffering some serious depression. He has a drs appoint later this month to get some more blood work. Luckly he has a great wife and if I were younger I would there helping all the time. We have been to visit several times. He has a full crew working for him and that is good, the work keeps coming in and we don't know if that is good or not. He works too much and is so stressed out. I feel helpless at times. He has to work has he owns his own business. He brings in well over $250 thousand a year and we all laugh when we tell him he is considered rich.

Don't have much to tell other then he keeps putting one foot ahead of the other. I only hope I outlive him. It's a great life if you don't weaken. I have been busy getting rid of most of my tools etc as I just cantdo that kind of stuff any more. This getting older is sometimes difficult. Again thanks for asking. I now feel the wam and fuzzies.

Getting back to the helmets and seatbelts, I thought it was the law that you had to wear helmets when riding a motorcycle and seatbelts while in a car. I remember way back when the law went into effect on helmets and so many were saying they didn't want their freedoms taken away that it should be their choice when wearing a helmet or not. Now my wife said too many with head injuries end up cost the State money. Just confused.
Only in America could the people who believe in balancing the budget and sticking by the country's Constitution be thought of as
"extremists

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Coondog
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Re: Confused

Postby Coondog » 2011 Jul 11 13:25

Yep!

I saw a recent news item about some guy riding his motorcycle in a ralley to protest the helmet law......wrecked his bike and died of preventable head injuries. Had he only been wearing a helmet.....! Ironic, ain't it!

Certainly the imposition of said "safety" laws are in large part, as so many things are, due to the cost of medical care (and, naturally, protection for the insurance industry).

In doing so, however, we have insured the longevity and perpetuation of those inclined to incredibaly stupid and potentially fatal acts We have interferred with the law of natural selection.

It explains a lot!

Coondog :curse:

If I haven't bitten anybody, why should I be on a leash?

ParkerLongbaugh
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Re: Confused

Postby ParkerLongbaugh » 2011 Jul 11 14:07


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historyforall
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Re: Confused

Postby historyforall » 2011 Jul 12 14:15

Oh well I had a long response but lost it due to a loss of internet. I have very poor internet at my house. So I will just recap.

If all debates and arguments where just name calling and chest thumping nothing would ever get done. Oh yeah, that is what Congress is like right now.

There are some who want Christianity to be declared the official religion of the US. Allowing Christian symbols to be place on public/govt buildings. Also, they want other religions to lose their non-profit status and have some protection against the "threat" of sharia law. They see M. Bachman as their best hope and support her in all ways. This was in Wisc. A Rolling Stone article touched on something similar to this I believe in Minn.

Not wanting to open the abortion/death penalty debate. But death is death supporting one but not the other for moral/religious reasons is wrong and hypocritical. Life is either sacred or not.

"Freedom is just another word for nothing else to lose."

My whole point is that of course there are things that limit what we can do, it is called a society. Making rules to live by so we don't piss each other off. Yelling fire infringes on my right to enjoy a public show. I fought against seatbelt/helmet laws when they were being passed even though I wear both. Nature does have to weed out the lesser ones.

The Archie Bunker approach to solving our Nations issues is not going to get us anywhere. Be proud to say you live in the land of the free.

Those groups against gay marriage are also against gay unions and anything else that results in two people of the same sex gaining a status that makes them one in the eyes of the state and Country. The box doesn't say single, married or union. The same arguments now were used in the interracial marriage fight and a lot of similar arguments in the women's right to vote.

I am from a deep south family that goes back to the first in their respected states. My ancestors fought for this country and against it in the Civil War. I am amazed at how many people are okay with laws that restrict anothers right to live their life the way they want as long as it doesn't limit someone else's equal right.

Don't yell about states rights when your state fought to end it.

Don't push your religious lifestyle on others and fight against other religions who are making their people live a certain way just because you don't like it.

Don't fuss over debt ceilings when it didnt matter before.

Demand from your side everything they demand from the other side.

Don't belive a politician who complains about govt programs but benefits from them at the same time.

Most importantly don't believe everything you see and hear.

and finally Rockbridge County Please Support Ron Paul (although he is kinda selling out right now) there have to be more than 40 of us this time around. We need to reboot the Country, shrink the military, and take away things so that we can move forward again.
I believe in the rights and freedoms of a person even when I don't support them on a moral or fundamental basis.

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Crux
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Re: Confused

Postby Crux » 2011 Jul 12 16:18

...cripes...
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

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Sam
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Re: Confused

Postby Sam » 2011 Jul 13 07:25

Only in America could the people who believe in balancing the budget and sticking by the country's Constitution be thought of as
"extremists

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Crux
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Re: Confused

Postby Crux » 2011 Jul 13 20:02

crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

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Coondog
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The SOTN is FUBAR

Postby Coondog » 2013 Feb 13 12:03

The State of the Nation

Once again, Obama addressed the joint session, joint chiefs, supreme court and assorted dignatories and guests (including Ted Nugent) with a choerent (and, yes, progressive) message outlining what our problems are, what our goals should be and how (albiet lacking some specific details) we might reach those goals.

Over optomistic, perhaps, but a positive vision of the future where things that need to be done get done. Somehow. And, yes, it was about government's role in getting things done. Virtually nothing addressed in the SOTN falls within the scope of private enterprise. Government is not (obviously) a for profit organization. It is there to administer to needs unadressed by free market capitalism - roads, bridges, regulatory safeguards and the welfare of the people.

We are presented with bold (and, yes, progressive) initiatives. We may agree or disagree, but as the man says, "They deserve a vote!"

Then, the good part comes along. The opposition response. Rubio paints a stark contrast to optomism along with an embrace of revisionist history. Government growth and spending has supposedly skyrocketed under Obama. But, one must ask, by what standard? The deficit is lower and public sector employmenht is down. The debt (not the same as the deficit) is up, but there is no moritorium or statute of limitations on the effects of the Bush Administration on where Obama started ond on the continuing effects of prior bad policy on the economy.

My guess is that Rubio's negative, vitrolic, presonal and unwarrented attacks on the presedent and his seemingly frenzied delivery (did he have ants on his face?) will end any notion of his continued precieved role as 'Savior'. Rand Paul, who was more hydrated (and often fruitier than a nut cake), made more sense.

Note to republicans: Your problem is not messaging. :director: We all got the message.....and rejected it. :thumdwn: The problem is the content of the message. :curse:

Guns :gun:

Cuts :knife:

Hate :evil:

Your only goal was to prevent Obama from a second term. You failed! Try something new! Say yes! :thumbup:

You will feel oh so much better :pompom:


This has been fun time with

:hail: Coondog

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FUBAR OBAMA

Postby Crux » 2013 Feb 13 15:45


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Re: Confused

Postby Coondog » 2013 Feb 13 17:11


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Re: Confused

Postby nudgewink » 2013 Feb 13 17:32


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Crux
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Confused

Postby Crux » 2013 Feb 13 18:23

If you are happy I am happy for you.

Now. What is 200 billion between friends? I mean, a 1.3 trillion dollar deficit vs a 1.1 trillion dollar deficit. You seem to think Obama is to be credited for this? He advanced this? Where is his adopted budget. There hasn't even been a budget.

ANY CUTS are more the phantom evils concocted by the compliant House GOP!

coondog you are better than this.

Our monetary policy is inflation built on devaluation of the dollar.


Your government is borrowing 46 percent of the money it spends. The debt still GREW by over 1 TRILLION dollars! We will never practically be able to repay the debt, but what do you or so many care. You really don't pay for much perhaps, and fool yourself you are just hitting the RICH. EVERYONE, short of the SUPER rich and a few Wall Streeters are getting burned. You know full well you are saddling the savers with 0% interest rates, weaker dollars, increased prices, shrinking retirement accounts, and only promises of more pixie dust!

DOG! Nudge! My goodness.


I can not really believe you function with such closed minds. :surrend: Stop with the vitriol!
Gosh, you who dominate the population of this sad forum are LOST. I know enough to QUESTION, even my self.

Now Nudge.

You really are over the top and rabid my dear. Your pithy bigotry is not becoming of the slightly reasonable. :2cent:

Dog. By public sector, do you advance that Federal Public Sector jobs are down by 600,000???
_____________________________________________________________________________________

Dog, your weak 200 billion and 600 thousand JOY, doesn't give any comfort, or CLARITY. I think you must KNOW this.

seriously,crux

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Crux
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Teachable moment!

Postby Crux » 2013 Feb 13 20:59


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Re: Teachable moment!

Postby Stonewall » 2013 Feb 14 10:21

Thanks for your posts! Stonewall, your administrator ... just an "empty suit."

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Crux
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Thanks

Postby Crux » 2013 Feb 14 17:44

:angel5: Bless you my son...

crux


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