Planned Parenthood or the A word...

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Coondog
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Re: Planned Parenthood or the A word...

Postby Coondog » 2011 Feb 07 16:49

So, you are saying that YOU, "ARE content with just punishing Scooter Libby", because I find that IMPOSSIBLE to believe... I have to draw FROM that unlikelihood, that you SUPPORT holding PP accountable for the ethical/legal "errors" of staff and directors at several many clinics...


In this, I would say you are correct....to the extent of culpability, they should be held accountable.

Of course, if we are to adhere strictly to ideological conservative standards of responsibility and governmental authority, the law should only apply to activities and not inactivities such as failure to report something. And by no means should anyone be fired or forced to resign.

And..........there is little to be gained by talking to me about what happens in Texas. As far as I'm concerned (and aparently as far as a lot of Texans are concerned) they're not part of the United States. More like one of those new planets that NASA discovered revolving around some distant sun where the laws of physics, as we know them, are reversed, divided by three and subject to strict biblical interpretation.

Coondog :laughing:

"Life has become immeasurably better since I have been forced to stop taking it seriously."
— Hunter S. Thompson

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Crux
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Gobbledy GOOK

Postby Crux » 2011 Feb 07 18:06

coondog wrote:Of course, if we are to adhere strictly to ideological conservative standards of responsibility and governmental authority, the law should only apply to activities and not inactivities such as failure to report something. And by no means should anyone be fired or forced to resign.

This is nonsensical, farcical, and otherwise, typical 'coonism.
Both "activities and in-activities" can be viewed as negligence at the very least. Culpability... Call it what you will.
Be careful what you say about Texas. What happens in Oregon stays in Oregon perhaps...
Texas? For all you know that person you next insult might just be from Texas if you get my drift BUSTER...

crux...Texan in Spirit :gun2:
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

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Coondog
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Re: Planned Parenthood or the A word...

Postby Coondog » 2011 Feb 08 11:39

So.........what you're sayng is that the authority of the government to regulate activity also rightly extends to cover inaction or inactivity?

:hmm:

CD

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Crux
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Goonyisms...

Postby Crux » 2011 Feb 08 18:26

...and false analogies. Don't get all excited there 'coonie, and drool all over yourself...
coondog wrote:So.........what you're sayng is that the authority of the government to regulate activity also rightly extends to cover inaction or inactivity?
We are not talking about the potential unconstitutionality of the Individual Mandate, goofball. Why do you throw out the wackiest analogies? I will tell you why... Too often you are TOO clever by at least half, in YOUR own mind. Like the silly comparison of inactivity, relative to the Individual Mandate and signing up for the Selective Service...

Dude. If PP, now follow me here, if PP knowingly has a culture of overlooking unethical even legal wrongdoing, OR is just grossly NEGLIGENT in it's duties of oversight, it will be held accountable on a variety of fronts. Legal, financial, political, and socially by possibly incurring NEGATIVE PUBLIC OPINION...

...subjectively clever faulty analogies of moral equivalency are ungainly...

loverockbridge wrote:So explain to me again how you can be anti-abortion and anti-taxes?
...or THIS little dandy...
loverockbridge wrote:I always want to ask someone who objects to first trimester abortions: how many unwanted children have you adopted? and if all human life is precious, do you support a ban on capital punishment too?
This second one is really unhelpful... One might do better to compare abortion to the capital punishment of a wrongly convicted innocent.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

I know some are "heart felt", but numb, and ignorant of what PLANNED PARENTHOOD IS DOING. These are PP clinics, staff, clinic supervisors and directors. I used the word cavalier earlier. What a MILD word. Do not excuse or live in an "Ends-justifies-the-means-WORLD"...
Live action brings it to you again, loud and clear TODAY!!! YES, you can watch the unedited video.

Yes PP staff and clinic supervisors offer abortion services to 13, 14, and 15 year old "sex workers" and advice to their PIMP on how to secure these, flaunt the LAWS, sidestep the policies, and ignore their intents and purposes... Underage non-english speaking illegal unprotected Prostitutes who are being exploited and violated... This is Unethical and Illegal behavior that bespeaks an INSTITUTIONAL defacto PP POLICY, despite what is written.
Wake UP! ...and smell your coffee... :coffee: ...and put down the NYT now and then...
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

10thFO

Re: Planned Parenthood or the A word...

Postby 10thFO » 2011 Feb 09 03:03

I admire Crux for keeping up the good fight. A lot of the crap I have read i this thread is just your usual political posturing.

I grew up Republican, I still am. While in college I swayed democratic a little, at least on the abortion side, as I was told by an ex gf that she was pregnant. I found out later that she had lied, just to get back at me.

After I got married, and tried to have a child, (to no avail) I was heartbroken and though of all those that were taking abortion as their "given choice". It made me sad.

Then I tried In Vitro a couple of times. failure still. Finally I paid to adopt. I've never been happier.

Let me say this, I am more conservative than most on this board. But I also have the wisdom to see that there are no black and white answers. If you think there are, then you truly haven't experienced life and your time is coming.

I wish you all well in your life journey's, but honestly, a little more openmindedness would go a long way. That goes for both sides.

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Coondog
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Re: Planned Parenthood or the A word...

Postby Coondog » 2011 Feb 09 11:27

To10th: Welcome back to the fight!

Crux: I suppose I'm looking for some kind of philisophical consistency. It seems we can mandate military service, mandate motherhood and mandate proactive law enforcement by citizens, ....but we cannot mandate personal responsibility when it comes to health care?

To an extent, public education is also mandated. Should we be able to opt out? With no children in the public school system, should I be forced to support it with tax dollars? We already have plenty of categories which are mandated because they are considered necessary for the good of the country. Are they all unconstitutional except when it comes to sex?

Seems to me that a conservative approach....keeping government out or our private lives....would eschew mandates based on moral and social issues while embracing the concept of individual responsibility when it comes to the burdon of health care insurance. I just don't get it!

I know the military doesn't seem like a related issue as we currently have no active draft, but it is illustrative of the support for a mandate. There is a lot of patriotic chest thumping by conservatives about active troops, but not so much on support for veterans. Like the affinity for the unborn which ends at actual birth. Like the concern over actions (or inactions) of planned parenthood with respect to human traffiicking without apparent concern over human trafficking.

Planned Parenthood doesn't have a monopoly on allegedly "a culture of overlooking unethical even legal wrongdoing". If it's there.........and I don't believe that's been in any way proven........then fix what's wrong and leave the rest alone! If abortion is unpalatable, then positively support efforts such as education and availability of contraceptives to avoid unwanted pregnancies.

And on health care.....stop pretending to care about the individual mandate. It doesn't affect people who can afford and already have health insurance....it applies to those who can't afford it. You know......the ones you're not concerned about in the first place! It is merely, as I believe someone recently phrased it, political posturing.

I appeal for it, but expect no consistency from, people who preach deficit reduction while abiding a huge tax cut for people who don't need it.

:hail: Coondog

Coherency: (n.) Connection or dependence, proceeding from the subordination of the parts of a thing to one principle or purpose, as in the parts of a discourse, or of a system of philosophy; consecutiveness.

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Crux
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ProChoicePolitically...ProLifePersonally

Postby Crux » 2011 Feb 09 11:44

I would like to thank 'coonie for inspiring me to this Thread. Thank you also, to the part of the Left that has, through their "openmindedness", sat so firmly on the fence regarding Abortion at any and all costs... Those who support the "ends-justifies-the-means" institutionalized policies of PP are reaping what they have sown.

I tuned into Live Action because of this thread. Lila Rose started this organization as a Pro Life 15 year old in High School. She has carried the work onto the UCLA campus and beyond. Live Action has been documenting PP's duplicity for years, and is now really getting some mainstream recognition. What a supremely clear and brave bunch of YOUNG people.

PP is BOUND BY LAW to report underage prostitution. Lila would say, that the most powerless and voiceless are the unborn, and the victims of underage sexual slavery. PP is facing the flack of their own guns... So many of us have struggled through life, and continue that struggle for understanding, and wisdom. We are born into this life knowing nothing...

As adults we are duty bound in the guidance of our the youth, and shepherding that next generation to their own greater understanding. Ultimately they struggle like the rest of us and find their own ways. It is truly humbling to see these young folks making such a profound contribution to the process. This inspires reflection upon some of my own frivolous youth.

crux...

Maybe PP will mature... Openmindedness is not a destination, but rather a vehicle of discernment on the road to CHOICE.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
...sorry 'coonie, just saw your post...I'll be happy to entertain your thoughts later...gotta go.
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

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Coondog
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Re: Planned Parenthood or the A word...

Postby Coondog » 2011 Feb 09 14:18

PP is BOUND BY LAW to report underage prostitution.

Really? I'd like to see the LAW. Let me know if you find it! Meanwhile'
Planned Parenthood takes action:

Planned Parenthood to Retrain Public Staff
By ERIK ECKHOLM Published: February 7, 2011

Reacting to the release of videotapes in which its staff members advise an apparent sex trafficker, Planned Parenthood said Monday that it would retrain thousands of staff members across the country on its rules for reporting possible dangers to minors, and would automatically fire anyone who violated them.

Full Article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/08/us/08parenthood.html?ref=plannedparenthoodfederationofamerica

If this helps prevent underage prostitution, then LiveAction has rendered a service. But.....it wouldn't serve Lisa's intentions, would it?

Coondog :sleepy:

Because things are the way they are, things will not stay the way they are. - Bertolt Brecht

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Crux
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Planned Parenthood takes action...

Postby Crux » 2011 Feb 09 16:58

Sex trafficking of minors is a federal crime and punishable by imprisonment for 10 years to life. 18 U.S Code 1591

Any person who aids, abets, or counsels a federal crime may be punished as if they had committed the crime themselves. 18 U.S. Code 2

...because THEY got caught with their unethical pants down... YOU CAN"T BE SERIOUS? Why don't you watch the tapes and apply a little common sense... Laws of parental consent, truthful disclosures of support and guardianship, etc.
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

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Crux
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Like I said...

Postby Crux » 2011 Feb 09 17:27

crux wrote:...and false analogies. Don't get all excited there 'coonie, and drool all over yourself...
We are not talking about the potential unconstitutionality of the Individual Mandate, goofball. Why do you throw out the wackiest analogies? I will tell you why... Too often you are TOO clever by at least half, in YOUR own mind.


...and here you go again. If the Sharpshooter were here he might castigate you for comparing apples to oranges...

coondog wrote:Crux: I suppose I'm looking for some kind of philisophical consistency. It seems we can mandate military service, mandate motherhood and mandate proactive law enforcement by citizens, ....but we cannot mandate personal responsibility when it comes to health care?

To an extent, public education is also mandated. Should we be able to opt out? With no children in the public school system, should I be forced to support it with tax dollars? We already have plenty of categories which are mandated because they are considered necessary for the good of the country. Are they all unconstitutional except when it comes to sex?

Seems to me that a conservative approach....keeping government out or our private lives....would eschew mandates based on moral and social issues while embracing the concept of individual responsibility when it comes to the burdon of health care insurance. I just don't get it!


I have NO idea what you are talking about here... Mandated Military Service?, Motherhood?, Proactive Law Enforcement by Citizens? You have got to be barking up your own tree here. I do not see how any of these are MANDATED.
Too clever by 1/2.


NOW, I agree that the burden of health insurance is a matter of personal responsibility. I have no expectation that YOU would pay for my and my families health insurance. Nor do I wish to pay for some dirty no-exercise couch potato dog who lays about eating junk food snacks, getting fat either...

(On healthcare as a society we have decided to pick up health care for old people, poor children, the military, and the disabled etc. and we can NOT AFFORD to cover our pledged obligations IT SEEMS. THIS is the context)

One should get health insurance or suffer the potential consequences. One should do a great MANY things or suffer the potential consequences.

All that stuff about affinity for children ending at birth, and a lack of concern for human trafficking and veterans is blather.
OR PROJECTION...snarky, but... :hum:
Just keep creating straw men like that and you might get in even more trouble with Sharpie... if he wasn't so biased.

On not being able to afford health insurance. Obamacare makes health insurance MORE expensive.

crux
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

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Coondog
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Re: Planned Parenthood or the A word...

Postby Coondog » 2011 Feb 10 13:55

Apples and oranges are still both fruits.

If government intervention, whether monitarily or legislatively, is fruit and you say all fruit is bad......that's consistant. I may not agree with you, but at least I understand it.

If you say all fruit is bad, then tell me apples are OK then ............................

.......ah, I forgot, you don't seem to appreciate metaphore.

I ask myself why I'm trying to discuss the pros and cons of planned parenthood with someone who has sided with those con artists whose sole purpose and intent, through sleazy, dishonest tactics, is the elimination of planned parenthood altogether. Suffice to say I don't agree with them and, since you donate to them, I don't agree with you, either!

Any person who aids, abets, or counsels a federal crime may be punished as if they had committed the crime themselves. 18 U.S. Code 2


Who committed the Federal Crime for which planned parenthood aided, abetted or counciled? Live Action said they were committing a federal crime....but unless they actually committed one, no actual crime occured. Or did it? Seems to me that someone who admitted to running child prostitutes on camera, and who's to say they're not, should be in jail........along with anyone who gives them money......for aiding and abetting!

Coondog :violent1:

“The truth is a snare: you cannot have it, without being caught. You cannot have the truth in such a way that you catch it, but only in such a way that it catches you.”

-Soren Kierkegaard

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Crux
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I have said my piece...

Postby Crux » 2011 Feb 10 18:25

Live Action is not a law enforcement entity. This wasn't an FBI sting. PP staff, clinic supervisors and clinic directors were not actually providing services in violation of law, to actual 14 year old sex slaves and their actual pimp master.

It is what it IS. PP taking action to rectify what IS, says more than your weak words.....

crux

PS Your ill-logic is laughable.
Take as examples, my FIRM belief that killing someone in self defense, and killing someone just on a whim are two different things, are not analogous, and are comparing apples and oranges...you'd perhaps counter that I am not consistent and they are both examples of fruits...NUTTY HUH?
___________________________________________________________________________________

Here is an important article. http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and- ... myth/full/

Which state is abortion illegal or unavailable in? :hum:
fangz1956 wrote:There is a tremendous difference between bashing a person and bashing their opinions.

And to think all this came after my rather very well said and heart filled postings... This was all shut your face kind of stuff. It really did not deal with, what I said, the points I made. ETC. Look at page one for yourself... And the PRAISE was heaped.

:laughing:
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

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Amy Probenski
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Republican War on Women ... etc.

Postby Amy Probenski » 2012 Mar 22 14:35

Sometimes the question alone is such a knee-slapper it doesn't even matter what the answer is!
A Question For Del. Ben Cline
Editor, The News-Gazette:

Could I ask Del. Ben Cline to explain why he supports shackling women who are in prison, while they are giving birth, no matter what their crime or condition?

PHIL WELCH, Rockbridge County

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Crux
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Cuffing/restaining/shackling...

Postby Crux » 2012 Mar 23 13:17

Prisoners of both genders are routinely restrained while being given medical services of all kinds.
The reason? The protection of all involved, including the public. Your "war on women" is a subjective mania.

:geek:
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

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fangz1956
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Re: Planned Parenthood or the A word...

Postby fangz1956 » 2012 Apr 02 08:00

Physicians Should Rise Up Against Mandated Transvaginal Ultrasounds

There is still hope.......hope that the good doctors will seize upon their own form of protest against this and protect their patients.


:thumbup:
Ever looked at someone and thought "the wheel is turning but the hamster is dead"?

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Wise One
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Re: Planned Parenthood or the A word...

Postby Wise One » 2012 Apr 02 10:30

That's an excellent piece. It gives hope that this time civil disobedience among those at the socio/economic pinnacle (medical doctors) will spread like wildfire.

If it does, the cowardly ideologues behind this disgrace will crumble to dust. They always do when opposed by money and power.
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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fangz1956
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Re: Planned Parenthood or the A word...

Postby fangz1956 » 2012 Jun 03 08:41

The Abortion Politics of NIPT

Ahhhhh.........I can smell the burning rubber of the spinning wheels now!


:sip:
Ever looked at someone and thought "the wheel is turning but the hamster is dead"?

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Crux
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You were screwed...

Postby Crux » 2012 Oct 26 15:33

...and now you can receive a legal abortion in 10 days...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 6G3nwhPuR4

VOTE!!

Romney/Ryan

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Crux
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Abortion protestors gone wild!

Postby Crux » 2013 Jul 03 10:09

It is crazy down there in Texas. The pro life crowd is singing Amazing Grace and they are being countered by the Pro Choice crowd with a "Satan Rules" chant!!! Just WOW.

"Abortion on demand NO exceptions!" just isn't the place many folks settle...

http://www.liveaction.org/

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fangz1956
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Re: Planned Parenthood or the A word...

Postby fangz1956 » 2013 Jul 03 17:01

Image



Image
Ever looked at someone and thought "the wheel is turning but the hamster is dead"?