Taxes Too High? Think again...

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Crux
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Sheesh...

Postby Crux » 2011 Apr 19 17:45

Wise One wrote:You are not a serious person. You are incapable of considering arguments on their merits. You cannot engage in rational discourse.

Either you cannot answer the simplest of questions, or you are spitefully unwilling to do so. At every turn you revert to base ideological tirade and name calling, only convincing us of your willful and strident ignorance.

I have tried often, hoping there might be a trace of a reflective human being under all that bluster.

There isn't.


I might of said this...but I am not so arrogant! :coffee:

So I will ask you again.

1. Do you think that it is a fair share of the tax burden that 1% of tax filers pay 40% of taxes collected?
2. Do you think it is a FAIR SHARE that 10% of tax filers pay 70% of taxes collected?
3. Do you think the bottom 50% actually RECEIVING money in aggregate from taxpayers through redistribution is fair?

cruxotic
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

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Wise One
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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby Wise One » 2011 Apr 19 19:03

New rules.
I will no longer respond to your questions until you answer mine.
It is a waste of time.
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Crux
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Nothing new here folks...

Postby Crux » 2011 Apr 19 21:02

...just move along... :coffee:

You really have no idea how that sounds do you.

It is just another "I am taking my intellectual bat and bawl home and not playing with you anymore" snobbery.
It is a hoot too. The WISE one. What silliness...

Good evening Sir. :lol:
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

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notwaldo
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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby notwaldo » 2011 Apr 19 21:17

crux wrote:The facts: THIRTY taxpayers in 100 HUNDRED tax filers actually pay a full 100% of Federal Tobacco Taxes ... all the while they howl, and spin and lament "the non-smokers don't pay their fair share". They KNOW that fully 70% or 7 in 10 American tax filers RECEIVE other taxpayers money when they send in there 1040...but ACT like they champion the oppressed POOR... They also know that if you include the so called redistributionistic EITC, fully 70% of Americans not only DO NOT PAY FEDERAL TOBACCO TAXES and ARE NET RECIPIENTS OF TAX DOLLARS... )Is this a great country or what???

I'll vote for "so what???"

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Crux
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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby Crux » 2011 Apr 19 22:45

No your vote is to ALTER my post (with silly junk) and belittle. Your ANALOGY, such as it is doesn't make any more sense than to suggest the WEALTHY can FUND YOUR LIFE...or should. :thumbup:

I ask you sir:
crux wrote:1. Do you think that it is a fair share of the tax burden that 1% of tax filers pay 40% of taxes collected?
2. Do you think it is a FAIR SHARE that 10% of tax filers pay 70% of taxes collected?
3. Do you think the bottom 50% actually RECEIVING money in aggregate from taxpayers through redistribution is fair?
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

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Wise One
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Re: Sheesh...

Postby Wise One » 2011 Apr 20 09:12

crux wrote:So I will ask you again.
1. Do you think ...

You have only to answer my question and I will reply.
Wise One wrote:Just replace the X's in the following table with numbers, and tell us if you think there should be one standard deduction for all taxpayers and if so how big:
Gross Annual Income:
$10K, tax rate = X %; $20K, tax rate = X %; $40K, tax rate = X %; $80K, tax rate = X %; $160K, tax rate = X %; $320K, tax rate = X %; $640K, tax rate = X %;
$1M, tax rate = X %; $2M, tax rate = X %; $4M, tax rate = X %; $10M, tax rate = X %; $20M, tax rate = X %; $40M, tax rate = X %; ; $80M, tax rate = X %;
$200M and above, tax rate = X %;

The choice is yours.
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Sam
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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby Sam » 2011 Apr 20 09:58

I haven't visited the forum for several days and after reading your posts my mouth is wide open in disbelief. Brother, don't you see what you are doing. This is how I perceive you. I guess it's all in the eyes of the beholder.

Again the same. My take is you don't like his answers or any that conservatives give. I shake my head in disbelief. Well Pal I do believe you have met your match and then some.

:hello2:
Only in America could the people who believe in balancing the budget and sticking by the country's Constitution be thought of as
"extremists

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Amy Probenski
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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby Amy Probenski » 2011 Apr 20 11:11

Hey Wise One, I nearly fell over laughing when I read the to and fro between you and crux.
Basically, you asked him to put his money where his mouth is, rather than just whining as he always does.
Will he actually tell us what he would advocate as his most fair tax rate schedule?
I predict he will never answer.
His modus operandi is to whine about how awful everybody else is, never actually committing to anything himself.
Whine, whine, whine.

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Crux
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It is getting deep in here...

Postby Crux » 2011 Apr 20 14:37

...as the BS just keeps piling up. I have been clear. I do not need to advance numbers to be understood.
I have answered the question of a better tax plan QUITE CLEARLY. Is the 23% Fair tax number a good one? Is a 20-22 % Flat tax number a good one? Is a three tiered or two or four tiered plan with variable numbers a good plan?
All of these are stabs at exactly what I advanced as a REVENUE NEUTRAL, fairer, SIMPLER tax plan that would save BILLIONS by EASING the associated costs with accounting and tax preparations...


All the other sniping by Caddie Amy, and The Arrogant one is simply laughable, and hypocritical... :coffee:

In this country the wealthiest 1%, those ONE in one HUNDRED taxpayers who make like, $350,000 and above actually pay like 40% of the Federal Income Taxes collected, but you folks just continue to seek to KILL opportunity, TAKE one person's hard earned gains, and ENABLE the unproductive class by greater and greater REDISTRIBUTIONISTIC LARGESS...

You will not address this obscene mentality, rather, you choose to act like putzes...

Seriously Amy, is it a Caddie, a BMW or a MB that you drive... Has the evil right wing barred you from success, and opportunity? Has the GOP stolen your RIGHTS? :geek:...no matter which you drive, I like CADDIE amy the best... :angel5:
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

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Amy Probenski
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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby Amy Probenski » 2011 Apr 20 14:48

Hilarious.

Still you do not answer with clear numbers, only a huge number of fuzzy possibilities.

Dollars to donuts, if Wise One picks one of those possibilities you will then only whine it was the wrong one.
(A word to the Wise, don't fall for his transparent trick)

You are incapable of making a decision and taking on accountability for its consequences. You are against everything and for nothing.

Hilarious.

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Crux
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You do not seem to get it Caddie...

Postby Crux » 2011 Apr 20 16:13

Amy Probenski wrote:Still you do not answer with clear numbers, only a huge number of fuzzy possibilities.
...if Wise One picks one of those possibilities you will then only whine it was the wrong one.
(A word to the Wise, don't fall for his transparent trick)
...You are against everything and for nothing.


There is no trick implied, or inherent... I do not care what the number is, on any of the options I put up. It could be 3 or 30, 2 or 20...
Do you know what I mean by REVENUE NEUTRAL??? Pick a scheme:

A. FairTax, Flat Tax or a Few Tier Tax...
B. Make it revenue neutral say, one that brings in 2006 revenue...
C. Make it much simpler...MUCH.
D. Cut the size and scope of the Federal Government.

This is what I am for. I am against the notion that the wealthy do not pay their fair share. I am against a system where 50% of tax filers DO NOT PAY A DIME. It is unhealthy both for the individual, the political system and the National Psyche. I wish to INVEST people into the system by having them pay into the system. I eschew a system where 70% of the bill is paid by only 10% of the tax filers...

I can not the stand the "bash the prosperous productive classes" rhetoric of the PROGS.

crux

Amy why will you not tell us what your professional training is? What kind of vehicle YOU drive?
Whether your opportunity to succeed in life was quashed by the GOP?
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

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Wise One
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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby Wise One » 2011 Apr 20 16:24

Thank you for your kind words, Amy.

As you predicted, he slithered away from anything definite.

"Revenue neutral" is only an excuse, not a reason. What counts is the shape of the tax curve, how the tax rate varies with income. For example, if numbers for a curve yield double the revenue required for neutrality, just halve all the rates. If it yields half the required revenue, just double all the rates. The scaling problem is trivial, but the shape question demands that crux state clearly what he believes to be fair in taxing rich versus poor.

He never will. As you so aptly suggest, he can only whine.
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Crux
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"Taking my bat and bawl and going home..."

Postby Crux » 2011 Apr 20 17:42

Wise One wrote:New rules.
I will no longer respond to your questions until you answer mine.
It is a waste of time.

I read two posts since the above statement. :crab: This is a pattern AO. :dontknow:

How about those who make between the poverty level, and 33,000 pay something like 5%. 34k to 76K 10%, 77K to 150K 20%, 151K to 300K 25% and over 301K 30%... Or the Fair Tax. No deductions. SHRINK the size and scope of FEDERAL government.

How about all incomes to 33K pay 5%. 34K to 70K 10%. 71K to 150K 15%. 151K to 300K 20%. 301K and above 25%...

Or, all up to 70K pay 10%, 71K to 200K 20%, and 201K up pay 30%...

No deductions for ANYONE. Let everyone have the Federal STATE give them an ENHANCED TAX-DOWN!!
:usa2:

cruxtastic "Feeling the LOVE"
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

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Neck-aint-red
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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby Neck-aint-red » 2011 Apr 20 18:11

He did it again, giving a fuzzy bunch of things without committing to any one of them.

You are right ... that guy will never say what he really thinks is fair. He can only criticize others.

Amy, I am with you. And Wise One, maybe I have an idea. How about this?

Make up a concrete tax schedule and ask Crux if he believes a tax schedule is fair.
- If YES, all is well and you can figure out what its consequences are.
- If NO, put the burden on him to change the numbers to his taste.

Yes I know he will avoid answering the question but we have to try something. The more he slithers, the more everybody will recognize him to be the reptile he is. So here am I, nobody's expert, proposing a real tax schedule:

Flat tax of 10% for every filer regardless of income, regardless of the kind or source of the income. Every individual gets a $5000 personal exemption. No deductions for anything else.

So Crux, will you agree this is fair? If not how would you change it? (Real numbers, not whining)

PS I really like that note by WO on scaling. It is so simple and clever and correct. You can just scale the 10% above by a constant multiplier to give revenue neutrality. Or if Crux prefers a graduated tax rate, then scale all the numbers by that multiplier.

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Crux
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"He did it again..."

Postby Crux » 2011 Apr 20 18:26

PUTZ :lol:

Hey Neck...are you a producer, a looter or a moocher? I am guessing a looter/moocher. :pat:
Amy would like to give you a guilt-ride in her Caddie to AO's for tomato sandwiches... :thumbup:

CRUZ
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

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Amy Probenski
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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby Amy Probenski » 2011 Apr 20 19:41

Neck-aint-red wrote:The more he slithers, the more everybody will recognize him to be the reptile he is.

Nice try, Neck-ain't-Red.

But his non-answer only confirms what we already knew. He is and always will be a reptile.

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Crux
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SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS......

Postby Crux » 2011 Apr 20 20:19

....is for SSSSSSSSILLLLYYYY SSSSSEASSSSSONNNNNN...

Any rational person looking at this thread will conclude that:

A. You guys are SSSSSSSSSNIPING and SSSSSSOUR.
B. Crux has MORE than answered the questions and issues.
C. The real avoidance of the questionsssss and issssssuesssss at hand, issssss all yourssssss....

Children.


Why don't you all go cruissssse the Circuit tonight, sssssssip wne coolerssssss and sssssmoke sssssome hasshhhhh...
...and eat sssssome tomatooooe ssssssandwichesssssss...

What CRAP. :shakeh:

cruxssssss's'night :sleepy:
_________________________________

Score: CRUX 3 the PROGS 0
(the arrogant one is busy computing crux's proposed numbers to determine if they are "revenue neutral", or "regressive", thinking he has trapped crux...when all the while he isn't listening, because he CAN"T HEAR the voice of liberty...)
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

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Sam
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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby Sam » 2011 Apr 21 06:04

Amy Probenski wrote:But his non-answer only confirms what we already knew. He is and always will be a reptile.

A good example of lack of tolerance. Would one call this person a bigot?
A person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race
Only in America could the people who believe in balancing the budget and sticking by the country's Constitution be thought of as
"extremists

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nudgewink
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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby nudgewink » 2011 Apr 21 13:27

Sam, I'm an unbiased and disinterested observer on this but I read over all the back and forth.
It does not look like "intolerance" to me.
Those guys just asked Crux for a straight answer to a simple question.
Why he refuses is baffling.
To be annoyed at rudeness is not exactly the same thing as intolerance.

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Crux
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Sheesh...

Postby Crux » 2011 Apr 21 21:49

Wise One wrote:Gross Annual Income:
$10K, tax rate = X %; $20K, tax rate = X %; $40K, tax rate = X %; $80K, tax rate = X %; $160K, tax rate = X %; $320K, tax rate = X %; $640K, tax rate = X %;
$1M, tax rate = X %; $2M, tax rate = X %; $4M, tax rate = X %; $10M, tax rate = X %; $20M, tax rate = X %; $40M, tax rate = X %; ; $80M, tax rate = X %;
$200M and above, tax rate = X %;

Using real US income distribution data, I volunteer to compute percentages of contributed revenue that your rates imply for top and bottom income segments. You ought to be pleased as punch with the result and concede that the numbers are fair – since you get to specify the rates.


Please provide me with a link to the "real US income distribution date" you would use to compute percentages of contributed revenue...

crux
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...