Taxes Too High? Think again...

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Uji
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Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby Uji » 2010 Oct 20 10:17

Tired of hearing folks complain about taxes? Well, maybe not, but you should be. Take a listen to this little talk by Malcolm Gladwell...

http://fora.tv/2010/10/03/Malcolm_Gladw ... _the_Rails

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Wise One
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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby Wise One » 2010 Oct 20 18:45

That is a fascinating clip, reminding us of the facts of history and putting things nicely in perspective. One does get the impression that a selfish ethic among Republicans and the very wealthy nowadays departs significantly from traditional American values.

A caveat to the point made in this nice clip? The 91% marginal tax rate may have ignited the firestorm of new special tax preferences and deductions that have ballooned the tax code into its present unfair and inefficient state. Moreover, even then there were tax loopholes and escape hatches that only the very rich could use – not so many as now but perhaps enough for the greedy bastards of that day.

I must rant over a pet peeve. Have you heard rightie Republicans whine over how unfair it is that "the top 1 percent of tax returns paid 38 percent of all federal individual income taxes", or something to this effect? I have, repeatedly.

This true statement generates misplaced outrage. Unsaid, but clearly implied, is that it would be more "fair" for the rich to pay the same percentage of all income taxes as the rest of us. This is mathematical nonsense, forget politics.

I can accept a proposal that the rich pay the same percentage rate on income, no tax preferences and deductions for anybody – quite different from the suggestion above.

To meet an insane goal of collecting equal amounts of tax revenue from equal percentages of an income distribution, mathematics absolutely requires a higher percentage tax rate for poor people than for rich people. (I can give concrete examples if this is not clear.)

What could be more unfair? The electorate should always reply, "You're nuts."

:coffee:
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby ParkerLongbaugh » 2010 Oct 21 09:03


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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby Coondog » 2010 Oct 21 13:18

The problem with this country is not entitlements, but the attitude of the entitled!

This seems an opportune time to address, once again, my favorite local right wing nut hypocrite.

Yes, I mean Hugh Boushelle, who's epistles from a parallel universe disgrace the pages of the News-Gazette on a monthly basis. This month's chapter of the flatulant column entitled, "From Where I Stand", "We're At A Crossroads" illustrates the type of whiney little girl petulance we're getting from the right wing fringe.

This week, Mr. Bouchelle is lamenting the fact that his FSA - Health Flexible Spending Account (a Federal Program of the type that is constantly denegrated as a Government takeover of health care) which he dearly loves, no longer allows him to buy whatever he wants at the CVS on a tax free basis.

According to his diatribe, the FSA allows him to set aside pre-tax money for out of pocket expenses thus enabeling procurement of cheap health insurance. Well, he's real upset because, like the rest of us, he is now only allowed to take advantage of prescription medicines and can no longer purchase, tax free, over the counter stuff like cold medicines, foot fungus powder, horney goat weed or, presumably, dependz.

Follows is some poorly supported jibberish about a socialist agenda granting "power to make life-altering political decisions to unelected bureaucrats." Then he goes on to call liberals the "elite ruling class. Rule 1 - people with no class should not talk about class. Having no class, either, I will bend that rule far enough to point out that the percentage of liberals that own yachts and go to high rent butt-patting parties with the Koch brothers is approximately Zero.

Next is authoritative credit to the Heritage Foundation (a bigger set of self serving liars you will never find) and a misapplied and apparently completely misunderstood quote from Thomas Jefferson.

It gets worse! He then accuses Nancy Pelosi of gerrymandering for some obscure reason. He laments the RNC treatment of his patron witch, Christine O'Donnel. And.....and.....after proposing that we (presumably us) need to research outside the bias of the main stream media, he goes on to provide a list of the most extreme, right wing, biased web sites imaginable.

Finally, after injecting all the standard wing nut verbage about freedom, the liberal propaganda machine, and (I almost forgot) the LIE about the US having the highest corporate tax rate world wide, (ever hear of Japan, numbnuts?) we come to the "Crossroads".

The Crossroads is, seemingly, a simple choice between Socialism and the Nirvana promised by "patriots (who) try to win back our country from the ruling class." What Tripe! This bozo is convinced that the ruling class (the ones who gave him that tax break for anal worm medicine) is composed of anyone other than himself and those dumb enough to subscribe to these inarticulate fantasies.

The unfortunate thing is, according to the typical election returns, most of Rockbridge County believes this, too!

Coondog :curse:

P.S. I took up Mr. Bouchelle on his invitation to post on his website. For some strange reason, my post (most civil in tone compared to his) didn't get posted. I wonder why?

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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby Wise One » 2010 Oct 22 10:22

"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby fangz1956 » 2010 Oct 22 13:48

Ever looked at someone and thought "the wheel is turning but the hamster is dead"?

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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby Coondog » 2010 Oct 22 14:32


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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby Wise One » 2010 Oct 25 00:27


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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby Crux » 2011 Jan 13 20:47

crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby Amy Probenski » 2011 Jan 13 22:27


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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby Wise One » 2011 Jan 13 22:36

"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby Crux » 2011 Jan 14 07:49

crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby Crux » 2011 Jan 14 08:03

crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby historyforall » 2011 Jan 17 12:50

History shows that the wealthy must pay a higher portion for a society to grow and prosper. Every golden age seems to be at a time of the rich paying the lions share of taxes for that civilization. It has to be because those who are wealthy take the largest share of the profits for themselves. Otherwise it leads to that government being overthrown as we have seen throughout the ages. There is a modern misunderstanding of what true wealth is in this country. Those who payed high taxes were still insanely rich. They did not suffer or want of anything.
Now we have an in between group of people who are almost "rich" who believe that they are on the verge of losing their money to taxation. The, I was going to buy a 3rd condo on the beach to rent out during the summer months but now Obama and socialist are trying to take what is mine, group. These people still have a long way to go to be one of the "rich" people of this country but in their mind they think they already are. It is the great con of the super wealthy to get those with moderate to very little to rally behind them and fight for their right to have more.
My favorite analogy was if you look at our country as a prison, the warden is the super rich, the guards are the middle class, and the poor are the prisoners. As is always the case there are more prisoners than guards and wardens, so the goal of the warden is to make sure the guards protect him from the prisoners while making sure that the guards never team up with the prisoners.
I am a big supporter of a flat tax rate or the national sales tax idea. But in order for the above statement not to be true, we would have to demand tight controls on govt spending. No more massive military to combat imaginary threats, or middle management beuracrats to push papers around. Schools funding would have to actually go to the schools not to the higher ups.
I believe in the rights and freedoms of a person even when I don't support them on a moral or fundamental basis.

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Hey H4All...just a few thoughts.

Postby Crux » 2011 Jan 17 14:24

The wealthy DO and will, and SHOULD pay more in taxes. America has been and is a Golden Age example. The more one earns, the greater potential for one to accrue wealth. A frugal and wise common man, or woman like Verna (see below), can build an enormous bank account over a lifetime, and give it all away if they choose.

I have never been too envious or jealous of the wealthy. I never believed they didn't "suffer or want", and know that folks EARN what they get. "Rich", is a very subjective term, as we see in current political debate. 100K/year? 200? A million or 64,000...

As for your "three kinds of people-Prison" analogy, try this one (not my work). There are three kinds of people.
Producers who produce the wealth, Looters who take the wealth and give it to the third group, the Moochers.
This is certainly limited and pithy, but thought provoking much like yours. Something to think about, anyway...

I too like the Flat tax, or Fair Tax, and also advocate for much better control on government growth, and spending.

Verna Oller's story: http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/frugal- ... n-10871625

crux
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby Wise One » 2011 Feb 02 10:37

There's a of articles today discussing reforms to the corporate income tax that echo on this subject.

The three very short pieces, respectively, describe an example of extreme egregiousness, why lowering the rate is good, and why lowering accompanied by abolition of loopholes won't bring the justice we think it will.

I'm not as pessimistic as the third guy. The "gimme guys" will always try to steal more but somewhere somehow we must find a way of turning off this corrupt tax-loopholes for campaign-contributions scam that lies at the core of what is wrong with American governance these days.

My perhaps unachievable ideal is abolition of the income tax (both corporate and personal), replacing it by a flat sales tax on everything, no deductions whatsoever for anything or anybody – inequities and hard cases at the low end to be handled by direct payments, not by tax fiddles.

:coffee:

PS. I'm seriously considering a personal boycott of Rockbridge Forum. My demands, and conditions for my return? That Fangz and Amy come back!

:sad:
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby Crux » 2011 Feb 02 17:53

crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby Sam » 2011 Feb 03 09:53

Only in America could the people who believe in balancing the budget and sticking by the country's Constitution be thought of as
"extremists

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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby Wise One » 2011 Feb 03 10:37

Yes Sam, you nailed it. I yield to nobody in the smallness of my microscopic mind – and I spend most all my time in a pouting huff. Hey, it's my nature.

Naaaw, my threat was idle – mostly aimed at imploring our wonderful girls to hang around. They civilize the place. If I get stuck alone with the likes of Crux then the ferociousness of my pouting and huffiness will be unbounded.

Save me from myself!

:coffee:
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Re: Taxes Too High? Think again...

Postby Crux » 2011 Feb 03 18:09

crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...


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