Scout Jamboree Center in Goshen

[resigned]

There was no triteness in the statement regarding the behavior of the scouts.......it is a fact that pre-pubscent and adolescent boys behave this way around girls. If you had read my comment in its enitirity, you have have seen the firther comment of said behavior falling woefully short of the BSA Mission and vision. I also said that said behavior should have been addressed directly to the Scoutmasters at the time of the incident. Stating a fact is not the same as condoning the behavior. Why didn't you seek out the Scoutmaster and complain directly to him at the time???????

I did read all of your statement and yes the boys behavior did not meet the BSA Mission. But this was not exactly boys behaving a certain way around girls. You had to have been there to understand. As for complaining directly to those in charge, at the time I just wanted to get my granddaughter out of the river and away from the area. This was several years ago and I am not one big on confrontation. Granted I took the easy way out and just left. I didn't want to cause a big scene in front of my granddaughters.

As for the phrase of "boys will be boys" there is allot of psychological articles and studies on just this subject. Thats for another day.

Enjoyed your last posting on this BS camp subject though.

[Juggler]

We first heard the National Boy Scout Council of America was planning on establishing its jamboree here in Goshen was from the local newspapers. It seems that the governor and local supervisors knew about the NBS of America consideration of Goshen as the site before the public did.

We feel the selection of Goshen for the Boy Scout jamboree site is not in the best interests of the people living in the Goshen area. The projected population every four years is around 240,000 visitors traveling into the area for a 10-day or two-week period. This area is fairly remote with very limited road access. The sewer and water facilities are almost nonexistent and even living quarters are sparse. And there are many environment and financial considerations that will have a negative impact.

Public safety is also a major concern. It’s our opinion that Va. 780 will become a major route to the camp and it is a fragile two-lane road. It cannot support the amount of traffic projected to travel into the camp. The ability for medical personnel to access someone in need of medical attention would be hampered by traffic.

It would seem there would be a need to enlarge these roads in order to handle the heavy volume of traffic projected for the camp. Would this include application of the eminent domain law to condemn property belonging to residents living along these roads? Eminent domain could also be possible if the BSA determines it wants to secure additional property to enlarge its camp. Would residents be willing to have their property taken? The BSA tends to build private residences on their campgrounds for permanent employees, thus limiting projected tax revenue. Would there be any tax dollars generated?

During a jamboree there are many cars involved in transporting campers, vendors and others to these sites. At Fort A.P Hill (the present site) we are told it takes 500 acres just to park the private cars bringing guests to the jamboree.

We really believe the Board of Supervisors and the governor’s office should conduct public hearings and a cost-benefit analysis, and feasibility studies should be completed on the impact on the county before the permitting process begins or approval is granted for moving the jamboree to the Boy Scout camp in Goshen. Maybe even an environmental impact study should be completed. Furthermore, we question how the fish and game property be impacted.

We have lived here since 1990 and feel this is a slice of heaven but not when our environment is going to be ravaged by the large numbers of people traveling into the area. No thanks. We will sell our house and move.

[resigned]

Feb. 26, 2009
Editor, The News-Gazette:
While some have offered praise for the decision to locate the national jamboree in Rockbridge County, several issues have not been considered.
First and foremost, the site being discussed is only accessible via county roads that present serious safety issues for visitors. These roads are dangerous enough for locals to drive; the potential human cost exacted during the jamboree could be tragic.
Secondly, Rockbridge County does not have the infrastructure to accommodate 240,000 visitors — five Charlottesvilles. Water supply, sewage treatment and electrical infrastructure would be overwhelmed, and there are not enough restaurants, hotels, grocery stores and gas stations to serve potential attendees.
Lastly, it is very likely that the quality of Goshen Pass and the Maury River will suffer as a result of so many visitors. We value our natural resources and rural way of life. Goshen Pass and the Maury River are an integral part of that way of life.
The Boy Scouts are a national treasure. But overwhelming our county and damaging our local treasures is bad judgment and bad policy.
LINDA LARSEN
Rockbridge Baths

[resigned]

Feb. 24, 2009
Editor, The News-Gazette:
I am writing to thank Pete Davis for pointing out a long and serious list of liabilities concerning the potential of a National Scouting Center in the Goshen area. Although this piece appeared on the opinion page, it included some important investigative journalism.
I have great compassion for those in the area who are suffering from unemployment and look hopefully to this project as a source of livelihood. But I also have great concern about the secrecy in the choice of this site, and that the site was even considered, given it does not meet the 5,000-acre size requirement.
Will the additional land needed from the adjacent, publicly owned George Washington National Forest and Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries fall victim to eminent domain for this private development?
I also share Mr. Davis’ concern about the hidden costs that will come with the center and the gigantic jamboree: roads will need to be widened and improved, first responders will be burdened and our water resources and waste disposal systems will be challenged. All of this will come at a cost to the local citizens and taxpayers. What kind of resources and tax input will be provided by the Boy Scouts?
Another site criterion used by the Boy Scout National Council, and listed in your front page article, was “spectacular natural beauty.” In that article, the county administrator envisions the new facility as green and environmentally friendly. I ask your readers to consider the spectacular natural beauty of Goshen Pass and how 240,000 humans congregating a few miles upstream can possibly be environmentally friendly. No matter how hard they try.
I also encourage your paper to compare the sizes of events that will occur at the national Scouting center to other large events that take place in Rockbridge County, such as at the Virginia Horse Center or at the colleges. Please evaluate the scale of such events so we have some measure for comparison. Thank you.
TERESA WHELAN
Rockbridge County

Its nice to know others have the same view point

[fangz1956]

Roanoke Times Letters to the Editor March 3, 2009
Jamboree could overwhelm Rockbridge

While some have offered praise for the decision to locate the National Jamboree in Rockbridge County, several issues have not been considered. First and foremost, the site being discussed is only accessible via county roads that present serious safety issues for visitors. These roads are dangerous enough for locals to drive; the potential human cost exacted during the Jamboree could be tragic.

Second, Rockbridge County -- a rural area of 30,000 -- does not have the infrastructure to accommodate 240,000 visitors (the equivalent of five Charlottesvilles). This would be comparable to bringing 1.5 million people (the inauguration) to the Roanoke Valley.

Water supply, sewage treatment and electrical infrastructure would be overwhelmed, and there are not enough restaurants, hotels, grocery stores and gas stations to serve potential attendees.

Lastly, it is very likely that the quality of Goshen Pass and the Maury River will suffer as a result of so many visitors. Like everyone in Southwest Virginia, we value our natural resources and rural way of life. Goshen Pass and the Maury River are an integral part of that way of life.

The Boy Scouts are a national treasure. But overwhelming our county and damaging our local treasures is bad judgment and bad policy.

LINDA LARSEN
ROCKBRIDGE BATHS

I am curious. In the articles I read from Caroline County, it was stated that they timed other large events to coincide with the Jamboree. Is Rockbridge County considering a similar plan? If so, then one could realistically expect to see larger crowds than just those of the scouts, their families, and the military.
I am also curious as to what is happening with the parallel project of the BSA in West Virginia. They are looking to expand their High Adventure camp there at apparently the same time they will be expanding their site in Goshen. Wonder if the good folks of Wild, Wonderful West Virginia are thinking along the same lines as you all.

[coondog]

Well, here in Rockbridge County, what we rely on to a great extent to survive is people coming in from somewhere else, spending their money, then going away. Sources of income range from tourists to college alumni to horse enthusiests to speeders along I-81. All very welcome in the course of the slug-like pace of Rockbridge County; one tour bus at a time.

Anything more intense is greeted, first with suspicion, then distain. "Nobody asked me!" "It was all done in secret!" No one thinks about the potential for generating prosperity in anything greater than miniscule allotments.

I once attended a very large music festival in a very remote location. Those living nearby were inconvenienced for a few days, but the owners of rural Mom and Pop country groceries were grinning ear to ear over the empty shelves. Some were pleased...some were not! But, isn't it that way with just about everything?

Fangz has a point. Rather than begin by speculating about traffic, crime, stressed utilities, dirty water, streakers or toilet paper shortages.....maybe we could speculate as to how to gain economic advantage from a rare event. Maybe the bottom line isn't worth the hassle. Maybe it is!

One should not be overly hasty to say "No!" or "Yes" but, "Maybe...let me think!"

Coondog

Show me the money

[Sweetness 'n Light]

Well I think its really simple is what I think. Those boyscouts shuondt' be allowed to do anything more up there above Goshen cause I totally have been watching everything they do and it is pretty bad maybe.

Once a long time ago my nephew and his friends used to go there and swim even though they probably wouldnt ever be a boyscout and they got kicked out . Some mean man there said "don't ever come back" and even made a threat kind of about calling the sherriff. Now what kind of people would call the sherriff only because some boys are swimming? I think it stinks is what.

Oh yes, he made up some excuse about they were throwing beer bottles in the water but those kids told me they never even drink beer so I think it is just a made up excuse and besides even if they did the bottles probably sank to the bottom anyway, so what is all the big deal anyway, huh? I throw stuff in the river near my house all the time and it doesn't hurt anything except for the busybody neighbor always screams at me if she sees me. She should fall in the river herself, ha ha, I bet that would teach her a good lesson, huh?

Oh and another thing. I remember they are always "do a good deed" and stuff which I never did believe so I phoned them up one time just to see. I said I have this big lawn and since my husband hardly never comes home any more then I have big troubles to mow it and so I asked the boyscouts to mow it for me. The guy on the phone didn't sound very friendly but I was surprised cause two boys did come over and mow my lawn but they kind of did a bad job and they missed a section and also mowed some flowers so I got kind of mad and screamed at them but only just a little.

And the next time I phoned cause the grass just kept growing anyway, the boyscout person on the phone was even meaner and just hung up on me. Can you believe that? Well that tells you a hole lot about the "good deeds" that those people do when they won't even help a woman who has some temporary troubles, huh?

And besides one of the boys they sent over didn't even look like he was a real American and I think maybe he was one of these aileens that sneeked in over the border, with dark skin and kind of skinny foreign looking, and fooled the boyscout people into letting him pretend he was just as good as any American boy, really stupid, huh? At least he was too young for a drivers license although I wouldnot be surprised if he had one anyway cause the stupid DVM will give licenses to just anybody except me cause I'm a good American and they are just foreigners they cowtow because they are all liberals maybe.

So they should ban the scouts from using the jambo camp until they really do those good deeds they always brag about and if they strut around my place anymore with those uniforms maybe I can phone the state troupers about arresting them like they threatened my nephew, cause they are impersonating an officer, huh?! That would be pretty smart and fix them!

[coondog]

S. and L.

You are, as always, a breath of fresh air in an often too stuffy environment.

I would warn you that, if the alieens have been able to fool the Boy Scouts, they have probably infiltrated the law enforcement agencies, as well. Maybe you should do what I did. Put in one of those invisible electric fences. Real Americans will stop trying to enter your yard after a few jolts of high powered electricity. Aileens will never stop trying. Thats how you know one from another.

It's also good for collecting small animals like rabbits and squirrels for a fine stew. You have to make sure they're not merely stunned, though. If one of them jumps up when they hit boiling water, it's enough to give you a stroke or a heart attack.

Coondog
Same goes for horses

[fangz1956]

Boy Scouts plan multimillion-dollar training center in W.Va.

CHARLESTON, W.Va. -- The Boy Scouts of America plans to build a multimillion-dollar "national high-adventure base" in southern West Virginia that would attract thousands of scouts from across the country to the camp each year.

The Boy Scouts have identified sites in Fayette and Raleigh counties for the adventure center. The scouts are negotiating to purchase land, and the deal won't be finalized until then, state Department of Commerce officials confirmed Wednesday.

The adventure base will be part of the organization's new National Scouting Center, which includes a new "Jamboree" conference center in Virginia.

"We're really excited about them coming to West Virginia," said Hoy Murphy, a commerce department spokesman. "This will be a national facility. We'll have people coming here from all over the country."

The Boy Scouts national office started a nationwide search -- called "Project Arrow" -- for the high adventure camp and jamboree center last spring and considered 80 proposals from 28 states.

At the West Virginia adventure base, scouts would take part in numerous outdoor activities, including rock climbing, white water rafting, backpacking, mountain biking, camping and canoeing. The center would remain open throughout the year.

State officials continue to work with the Boy Scouts to help the organization secure the land for the adventure center, which also may provide leadership training.

"West Virginia is eager to continue this process with the Boy Scouts of America," said state Commerce Secretary Kelley Goes. "We appreciate the Boy Scouts recognizing what our land has to offer with its spectacular and diverse topography. There are opportunities to bring new adventure outlets to scouts, and we look forward to continuing this discussion."

State officials and Boy Scouts executives would not name the specific sites in Fayette and Raleigh counties that are being considered.

"We are still very early in the negotiation process," said Nicole Slater, a spokeswoman for Boy Scouts of America.

The adventure center is expected to open within the next three years.

More than 4.6 million youth, ages 7 to 20, belong to the Boy Scouts, and the organization has more than 300 councils throughout the U.S.

"The [adventure base] is a great opportunity for West Virginia and for scouts across the country to see the beautiful and magnificent environment that is West Virginia," said Jeff Purdy, director of the Boy Scout's Charleston-based Buckskin Council.

Purdy also served on a state task force set up last year to persuade the Boy Scouts of America to build the adventure base in West Virginia.

The Boy Scouts also plan to build a national Scout Jamboree Center in Goshen, Virginia.

The site would become the permanent home for the scouts' "National Jamboree," which typically takes place every four years and attracts more than 240,000 scouts. Capital investment in that project is expected to be more than $100 million.

"Serving as the home for the Boy Scouts' national Scout Jamboree is a great honor for the commonwealth of Virginia," said Patrick Gottschalk, Virginia's secretary of commerce and trade, said in a prepared release. We are committed to this process and know that we have a tremendous amount to offer in the long term to this time-honored celebration and the organizational goals of the Boy Scouts."

The southern Virginia site also would likely host future "World Scout Jamborees."

State officials predict scouts who attend jamboree events also will visit the adventure base in West Virginia.

The Boy Scouts of America celebrated its 100th anniversary last year.

"This new vision of a National Scouting Center represents an incredible opportunity for the Boy Scouts of America, our scouts and our nation," said Jack Furst, chairman of the search committee. "In its entirety, the center will offer a new American landmark -- a multipurpose, year-round destination for scouting activities that will become the epicenter for the best that scouting has to offer."

The scouts have three other high-adventure bases in the U.S. that serve more than 50,000 youth a year.

The proposed adventure center in Fayette and Raleigh counties would offer new programs not available at those sites.

Well....now we know what the powers that be and the media are saying in West Virginia. I'm on a search for what the people in Fayette and Raleigh County are saying about it.

[resigned]

According to the Rockbridge Advocate using information from The Site Selection Online Insider, "the scouts were looking for 5,000 acres of land. The 10 day jamborees its said, bring together 36,000 + scouts and 8,000adult volunteers, plus another 200,000 visitors who drop by for a few days."

The average daily water use for the Jamboree in Fort AP Hill was 950,000 gallons,. The event generated 450,000 gallons of human waste and 19 tractor-trailers of food was brought in every day.

Problems identified as such are:

• Goshen already has a really bad water problem
  
• Boy Scouts are tax exempt
• Roads are not large enough to accommodate all the traffic generated by the large numbers stated above
  
• Who deals with the sewage treatment and trash removal
• That many people will have a definite impact on the Goshen area environmentally
• There are many more problems/issues to be addressed but just these few that I have mentioned makes me ill.

I don't see how this area can accommodate all of the above without straining our resources. Call me negative etc but I really feel strongly about this issue. What ever possible (questionable) revenue this Jamboree generates is not worth the impact we foresee on our local environment.

[Anonymoose]

Rarely fails, mention something new or different in Rockbridge County, and you can count on the familiar whine "But we don't WAAAANNNT the _________(Boy Scouts, courthouse, trash transfer station, etc.) here." Not in our beautiful back yards, or front yards, whichever the case. RC is just entirely too "special" to be welcoming to just anyone or anything that might alter the status quo. Jesus could announce a planned visit, and the same chorus would wail. "We don't care WHO it is, we just can't accommodate the throngs of people and the trash and excrement that they would inevitably leave behind." Methinks some people just need to get over themselves, and concentrate on what good might come out of such a situation. Perhaps the BSA investment would lead to improvements in Goshen's water situation, with money from sources other than local taxpayers. And, who knows but what a few of those scouts and future business leaders might one day choose to bring some multi-million dollar, eco-friendly businesses to the county, expanding the tax base and creating employment opportunities for the beaten-down working class that, believe it or not, does meagerly exist here. The underlying sentiment in this debate seems to be about what some people think is going to be taken away from them. I would like to ask the question "what are you willing to part with, or contribute, or tolerate, for the sake of (I hate to use this expression, because it will inevitably rouse a cry of "socialism" from some) the "greater good?" The people of West Virginia are apparently embracing the prospect of hosting the BSA, and don't fear that their pristine natural beauty will be degraded. (Of course, we would never compare ourselves to West Virginia, with its low standards and questionable morality. That just wouldn't be fittin'.)

[resigned]

Well Annoymouse, I believe that we "whiners" as you call us, would have preferred being presented with information such as you mentioned in your so delightful and thoughtful posting. I know its hard for some such as you to understand the big picture when you have such a small screen. It would have been great if information from the BS had been provided to residents in Goshen on how the whole project was going to be delivered and how all the concerns would be addressed. That would have made a whole lot of sense.

Many of my friends and neighbors don't have a problem with having the BS in our back yard, the problems we have I have cited in this thread. Please re-read my posting prior to yours.

Yes there are concerns as would be in any neighborhood because we don't know all the particulars. But it was decided to keep many people in the dark while plans were being made. Somehow that makes me wonder what is actually going to occur. When secrecy is involved it gives me cause to wonder.

But I would invite your comments as you might end up saying something intelligent. And I am always interested (Yawn) You could have posted your comments in a more enlightened and thoughtful way. but then I don't want to make a monkey out of you........why take all the credit.

[fangz1956]

Anonymoose......

Fantastic post! Got a question for you about the whiners. Percentage-wise, how many of the whiners would you say are natives of the county and how many are transplants? I am sure this question will ruffle some feathers (just like it does here)......but it's interesting how transplants to an area wish to stop progress that would benefit the natives in the long run. That's a lot of the undercurrent here with folks whining and wailing about all the damage a new asphalt plant will do to the proposed area in west Roanoke County. The vast majority of the opponents are transplants with no real long-term investment or interest in the community as a whole. Never mind that the company has always proved itself to be a good neighbor elsewhere. Never mind that this could create new jobs. Never mind that this is really a blue collar working town.
Never mind that the majority of the traffic accidents on West Main Street are caused by teenagers racing to school to beat the tardy bell or drunks leaving a local watering hole.......not commercial truck drivers.
Just curious.

[resigned]

Transplants to Goshen or Va. My ancestors go back several generations in Va. Does that still make me a transplant? When we moved to Goshen we invested allot of time, money and energy into our property which in my mind provides a boost to local folks. We had trees cut down, grading done, roof put on, cabinets built, etc by all local folks. It seems that the issue of transplants always comes up when this kind of issue arises, but everyone here sure did enjoy taking our money and still do.

We have invested very heavily into this area emotionally as well as financially - Because we question an action that might impact on our area tremendously given what I have stated before results in the subject of transplants being brought up. I think that is a smoke screen. All people who moved into this area were at one time or another were transplants. I would say only the Indians were the natives. Since my great grandmother was Cherokee does that make me a native?

Seems the issue is running out of subject matter when one has to resort to referring to transplants. Give me a break.

[coondog]

We live down from the entrance to the Young Life Christian camp

and

Many of my friends and neighbors don't have a problem with having the BS in our back yard

Just curious! How big is your back yard?

If you are referring to the Young Life center just West of Little California, then we have to be talking about close to 12 miles to Lake Merriweather which is, at sea level, beyond the visible range due to the earth's curvature. If there is another Young Life Center nearer to Goshen, then I will have learned something new from all this.
If life gives you lemons, make lemonade, set up a lemonade stand and sell it to the Boy Scouts.
You might even get a cookie!

Coondog

Cookies.........oh yeah, that's Girl Scouts, eh?

[resigned]

You can see the Boy Scout camp across the river traveling along Rt 39. To get to it you go to Rt. 39 and take 601 about a mile and you are there.

We are betwixt and between both the camp and Young Life. "In our back yard" is not a literal translation. Its a figurative of speech - I assumed most people understood that

And yes we have a big back yard, very big with machine gun towers on each corner, barbed wire, and we all carry pistols at our side. We have a giant Rottweiler and pit bull and don't mess with anyone who comes around. We have sensors all around our place that alerts us to all traffic including animals. We keep a still out yonder and produce the best moonshine in these parts. You see after my ancestors moved from Va.( they go way back to the 1700 thereabouts) to Tenn. they ended up settling in Mo so I learned it from the best. Now you figure the rest out.

[coondog]

Well, yeah!

But according to the map my great, great grandpappy, Rufus the Injun Tracker (later called Rufus the Scalped), drew, you can get there by Rt. #42 from the West or the North and take Little River Road From Bells Valley to The Millard Burke Memorial Highway. Or....over the Knob Road. Or....the Estaline Valley Road from up in August Co. Rufus, who also eventually got run out of Virginia, used to ride his mule from Zack over the Little North Mountain to get there from the East.

Plenty of Routes in and out!

Coondog

Now, about that Moonshine...................

[Anonymoose]

Hi Fangz,

Thanks for your post! My knee-jerk reaction would be say "transplants" reflect the majority of dissenters. But, there is no way to quantify that, and, I'm sure there are opponents in both categories. But, like you, I see a difference in the perspectives, generally, of natives and transplants in the county. Transplants here seem to fall into broad categories: those who retired here for what they hope is an undisturbed utopia, those who came here as faculty at the colleges, and those of us who came here to work at one of the few industries in the area. Natives who choose to stay here are here for the long term, and their fortunes rise and fall on the overall economic health of the area. So, I think they are more likely to be receptive to new industries or groups, within reason. And, I think natives are more likely to see BSA as a nice feather in the county's cap, whether it results in a bunch of jobs or not. They realize that it just adds to the mosaic and reinforces that this is a desirable place to be. It's a source of civic pride to say we are hosts to the BSA Nat'l Headquarters. As a recent letter-writer to the Rockbridge Weekly web site pointed out, it's not the like the Hell's Angels are moving in, and I think most natives realize it could be much, much worse.

Now, as for the motivations of the dissenters, I keep coming back to that sense of entitlement that some people feel as property owners. "How dare they make a decision without consulting us?" or "I may lose 10 feet of my front yard through eminent domain" or "The increased traffic, etc. will be a burden and inconvenience to me". Well, many of the natives have already made those sacrifices. Ask the people who live along Rt. 11 when there's increased traffic due to industry, or tourism, or when there's a wreck on 81. Bumper-to-bumper truck traffic on 11 is probably a pain for them, but, it's temporary and sporadic. And, you don't hear them complaining. They understand that ownership is not a guarantee against hassle. If anything, it's a sure bet you're going to have to deal with some. We go along to get along.

As for eminent domain fears, I've been thinking about that lately, and it occurred to me that all of us property "owners" in this country are so blessed due to eminent domain. If the King of England had not presumed and declared himself "owner" of America and endowed the first foreign settlers (squatters) in this country with the "rights" of ownership (paying taxes to England), most of us couldn't own any of this country today. Although we think we have legal entitlement, we have no moral entitlement to this land we call ours. And, the rights of ownership we have established for ourselves are the same rights that entitle the BSA, legal owners of 4,000 acres in RC, to do with it as they wish, in accordance with national, state and local regulations. So, no more than most of us have to ask for public "permission" to set up residence here and to some degree enjoy the privileges of ownership, neither do they. And, our constitution guarantees them the right to assemble, and somewhere along the line some crafty entities lobbied for and got, the right to tax exemption for certain groups in our society. So, here we are, all exercising our "rights" as American citizens, and fussing about the very system that our ancestors laid out for us.

Speaking of ancestors, I can't believe Beck would insult that monkey from which we are all descended!

[loverockbridge]

Mountain's 2/25 posting says it succinctly. I second him. Well said.

[resigned]

Speaking of ancestors, I can't believe Beck would insult that monkey from which we are all descended!

Ah, now I understand it all so clearly. You see I am not descended from a monkey.