Our Police: Like Andy Taylor, or the Gestapo?

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Bigbux Stogeychomper
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Re: Our Police: Like Andy Taylor, or the Gestapo?

Postby Bigbux Stogeychomper » 2015 Apr 08 18:34

1Centrist wrote:Crux, I apparently cannot write clearly enough for you to grasp any thought I try to convey.

Aha, it seems that you have discovered his essential character. Searching for just the right technical term, "Troll" comes to mind.

Not that I object. I find him entertaining and we may even share a certain kinship. Disturbingly, I think there may be a few Troll genes in my own blood.

Now if you want to worry, Sweetness 'n Light is the one to focus on.

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1Centrist
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Re: Our Police: Like Andy Taylor, or the Gestapo?

Postby 1Centrist » 2015 Apr 08 19:56

Sweetness 'n Light is a sham and readily dismissed. I reviewed her (if it is a her) earlier posts and quickly concluded her/his Uncle Remus writing style is total hokum designed piss off people and/or appear less clever than s/he is. What s/he forgets is the trickster Br'er Rabbit was not always successful.

As to Crux, he again fails to grasp what I write, that my bidding him farewell simply means I will never again respond to any of his posts, not that I have a thin skin and am leaving the forum. May he stay in hibernation indefinitely.

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Coondog
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Re: Our Police: Like Andy Taylor, or the Gestapo?

Postby Coondog » 2015 Apr 09 10:35

Aw.......c'mon, 1C. Crux might be a troll, but he's our troll.

Thing is, he/she/it likes to pretend a lack of understanding of what you're saying. This perpetuates the conversation. One must decide for ones self just how far down that road one wants to go considering that nothing persuasive is likely to persuade.

Crux knows what many often forget. This is a forum. A debate, as it were. And, like the rest of the internet, information of the most skewed sort manifests itself as support for extreme positions. Crux is a master at parroting right wing talking points. Beck and Limbaugh pale in comparison.

Most lesser adept right wing fanatics have long since departed. The key is to not allow personal aspersions get in the way of the amusement factor.
Be content that whenever crux is backed into his corner (exile), you have him exactly where you want him. Well done!

Coondog :laughing:

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1Centrist
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Re: Our Police: Like Andy Taylor, or the Gestapo?

Postby 1Centrist » 2015 Apr 09 11:34

I understand, CD. My frustration is his penchant for never responding directly to specific challenges to his positions or logic, while I try to do exactly that when he challenges mine. But you're right, it's a forum for debate, Crux does keep it going, and I shouldn't really need to go too far into a cul-de-sac.

cheers

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1Centrist
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Re: Our Police: Like Andy Taylor, or the Gestapo?

Postby 1Centrist » 2015 Apr 09 12:11

Here's a major part of the problem in a nutshell:
Because three days elapsed between the shooting and the publication of video of the shooting, the Scott incident became an illuminating case study in the routinized process through which police officers, departments, and attorneys frame the use of deadly force by American cops in the most sympathetic possible terms, often claiming fear of the very people they killed. In the days before the video surfaced, the police version of events, an utterly typical example of the form, was trotted out, only to be sharply contradicted when the video surfaced. In most cases like this, there is no video, no definitive, undisputed record of much of what happened, and thus no way to rebut inaccurate statements by the police.

This is from The//Intercept. So, it seems the North Charleston authorities were prepared to do the Ferguson shaba-shaba until the video emerged. When will they ever learn.
:shakeh:

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Wise One
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Re: Our Police: Like Andy Taylor, or the Gestapo?

Postby Wise One » 2015 Apr 09 12:50

Everybody (except racist murderers) wins with police cars/personnel sporting video cameras and there's gratifying movement in this direction.

The public wins in having a moderating factor on police behavior, police win by having evidence of the actual behavior of dangerous subjects, society wins by having a fuller information set with which to make decisions in a court of law.

:coffee:
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Coondog
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Re: Our Police: Like Andy Taylor, or the Gestapo?

Postby Coondog » 2015 Apr 09 14:25

It's not just video. There have been plenty of videos implicating police for heavy handed mayhem which have failed to result in anything but vindication. We, the curious, demanding overseers of right and wrong require audio as well.

We would love to hear the actual conversations preceding the use of night sticks, tasers and pistols on alleged resisters of arrest and what not....along with multi angle video in HD. And independent review, of course.

Coondog :naughty: :naughty:

"I got a rabies tag. I just don't have it with me!"

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Crux
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Shabba-Shabba?

Postby Crux » 2015 Apr 10 08:38

1Centrist wrote: My frustration is his penchant for never responding directly to specific challenges to his positions or logic, while I try to do exactly that when he challenges mine.

First this is totally, almost, unfair. I refuse to lay out why Israel/Palestine does not EQUATE to Russia/Crimea or America/American Indians or other waste of time comparisons. Just FOCUS on the issue at hand. That is the only example I can think of where I "did not respond".

We can start over.

Secondly, stop with the shabba shabba on comparing Ferguson to the killing of Mr. Scott. There is no comparison. Speculate if you will, but these two instances are totally different. Mr. Scott was RUNNING FROM THE COPS FROM THE GIT GO!!! He got pulled over for a inoperable tail light, didn't want to deal with law enforcement because of child support issues, whatever, was pursued on foot, tazed, RAN AWAY AGAIN, and was shot IN THE BACK without cause near as anyone can tell!

EVERYTHING about the two cases is different Conflating two things, or pursuing worthy goals based on lies, is not helpful. It only caters to the crowd that believes the ends justify the means. Like the UVA Rolling Stone Rape Story, we do not need to use lies, emotional pleadings, and other tactics to pursue righteousness. Not in my opinion.

Leave the Shabba Shabba alone...

(on parroting, remember I read the kos, huffpo, think progress, and don't have satellite tv/fox. The CHARGE is empty and says more about your projection of me, than anything. WHY do I care? Because I LOVE this country. I LOVE life. I LOVE this miracle, and time is short... crux)

(OH, that "troll" crap IS invective. Lighthearted here, but it is an empty charge. It has bee worn out by whiners long ago. TROLLS are in the eye of the beholder. Don't make yourself sound like AO JR. (Hates-red-necks). Just deploy the FOE FILTER! Call me a RACIST! or ASSHOLE!...)

(whatever...)
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

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1Centrist
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Re: Our Police: Like Andy Taylor, or the Gestapo?

Postby 1Centrist » 2015 Apr 10 09:29

I was referring to the authorities handling of the incident after it happened, not the shooting itself. It appears the North Charleston authorities would have attempted to obfuscate/dissemble like the Ferguson police chief and mayor if the video hadn't emerged.

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1Centrist
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Re: Our Police: Like Andy Taylor, or the Gestapo?

Postby 1Centrist » 2015 Apr 10 09:34

BTW, shaba-shaba is an expression I picked up during my career as a defense contractor, so it may have a military origin. It simply means actions designed to blur or conceal the facts, similar to "song and dance" and "smoke and mirrors."

p.s., I was pretty good at it. :smile3:

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Crux
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Come on C...

Postby Crux » 2015 Apr 10 12:39

1Centrist wrote:I was referring to the authorities handling of the incident after it happened, not the shooting itself. It appears the North Charleston authorities would have attempted to obfuscate/dissemble like the Ferguson police chief and mayor if the video hadn't emerged.

I think that you are completely WRONG in your description of what the Ferguson PC and Mayor did. They acted professionally, and we can say that now with asurity given the SUBSTANCE of what happened with Wilson and Brown that day! Centrist. I watched this closely from the get go. My observations and commentary was CORRECT right straight through! Not all of us by any stretch were drawn into the hype. The police and mayor have a DUTY TO THE EVIDENCE and the PROCESS. They did their jobs, as did Wilson, day one right through the the whole sha-bang.

Sha-bang, not to be confused with shabba-shabba.

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1Centrist
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Re: Our Police: Like Andy Taylor, or the Gestapo?

Postby 1Centrist » 2015 Apr 12 09:48

Recognizing the black community completely distrusts the local authorities for the many reasons cited in the second DoJ report, here are some general points on the Ferguson authorities' mishandling of the shooting:

  1. The Ferguson Police Department initially refused to name the officer involved in the shooting and to commit to a deadline for releasing a full autopsy report.
  2. Robert P. McCulloch, the elected prosecuting attorney for St. Louis County, was put in charge of determining if state charges would be filed. This was like putting the fox in charge of determining who got into the chicken coop.
  3. The length of time that Brown's body remained in the street (nearly 4 hours) was excessive.
  4. The release by the police of the robbery report and video of Brown was viewed as suspicious; initial reports were that Wilson was unaware of the robbery and was just ordering Brown and his compadre to get on the sidewalk. The DoJ had urged the video not be released, saying a release would inflame tension.
  5. The grand jury took over 3 months; most grand juries complete their work in a matter of days. Further, the grand jury was not sequestered during the proceedings, which is a really bad idea during such a volatile situation with massive, often emotionally charged media coverage. (As an aside, it's often said a prosecutor can get a grand jury to "indict a ham sandwich," but in this case it might appear to some the prosecutor was working in the other direction.)
  6. The data dump of the grand jury deliberations was dribbled out in several batches and in massive amounts each time, likely designed to drag out and overwhelm those interested in evaluating the proceedings.

Also keep in mind the devil is in the details. There were many selective leaks by the Ferguson authorities throughout the process. In addition to the video release, for example, one of the earlier leaks was that Brown had marijuana in his system. Later, the autopsy could not determine whether Brown was impaired by it. Why did the authorities release this information in the first place?

So, given that an unbiased DoJ investigation eventually cleared Wilson, why were the Ferguson authorities unable to do the same without all of the above? You may have watched this incident closely, Crux, but you know nothing of crisis management and public relations.
:guillot:

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Crux
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Re: Our Police: Like Andy Taylor, or the Gestapo?

Postby Crux » 2015 Apr 12 13:51

You are not informing me of anything. The fact that his body lay in the street for 4 hours is not really an issue, given the investigation of the scene. Too much is made of this. The leaks came from various sources, for various reasons. The ham sandwich is interesting because it was, from the BEGINNING, a tall order to see the grounds for an indictment. Remember the incitement too, based on lies and propagandizing the sitch...

You don't have to throw in the invective at the end. The JAB. Centrist, I am not an enemy, or off in my positioning. Come on man. Man up.

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1Centrist
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Re: Our Police: Like Andy Taylor, or the Gestapo?

Postby 1Centrist » 2015 Apr 12 14:13

Crux, :beatdead: No more interest in this topic on my part. TTFN

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Crux
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Armed man subdued, no shots fired...

Postby Crux » 2015 Apr 15 08:36

A man steals a rifle from the WalMart. He is pursued by police. He at some point gets the trigger lock off and loads the gun.

The first video shows the situation, as one cruiser reports on the man's actions. To keep the cop back at a distance,
he threatens to shoot himself and keeps walking. He fires a round into the air. He is approaching a more populated area...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGIJznCz0Kg#t=152

Here from the cruiser's dash cam that dealt with the man.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b8V3fxN-EM

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1Centrist
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Re: Our Police: Like Andy Taylor, or the Gestapo?

Postby 1Centrist » 2015 Apr 15 08:54

I read about this earlier, but only the aggregator's clips. One clip I thought amusing was this:
Police ram car into armed suicidal man
BBC News - ‎2 hours ago‎
Police in a suburban town northwest of Tucson, Arizona, released dashboard camera video showing a police vehicle slamming into a suspect at high speed when it seemed the man was intent on killing himself with a rifle he had just stolen from a nearby ...

You can always count on Arizona cops to be of service.

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Crux
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Re: Our Police: Like Andy Taylor, or the Gestapo?

Postby Crux » 2015 Apr 15 10:38

They saved the guys life! Perhaps other innocents were saved too. Crazy videos. Wow. He walked out of the hospital 2 days later.

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Coondog
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Re: Our Police: Like Andy Taylor, or the Gestapo?

Postby Coondog » 2015 Apr 15 20:05

What is remarkable about this story is not that the guy lived, but that the police didn't use eight cars.

Coondog :laughing:

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1Centrist
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Re: Our Police: Like Andy Taylor, or the Gestapo?

Postby 1Centrist » 2015 Apr 23 09:12

Now we'll see if Wilson was in the wrong, the American way!

ST. LOUIS (KMOX) – The family of Michael Brown announced they will file a civil suit against the City of Ferguson. They will claim wrongful death of Michael Brown Jr.
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2015/04/22/michael-browns-family-to-file-civil-suit-against-the-city-of-ferguson/

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Crux
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West Palm Beach, Florida

Postby Crux » 2015 Apr 27 08:43

Video released just yesterday.

Was it a racist who called 911 about "some black guy".
Did he lie about the alleged armed robbery?
Did the cop target a black youth?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hwrzIcCCrOg

What a dangerous job. Armed robbery, and being a Cop.