Crash / Recession!

Main discussion area is here. Reply to a message to continue a discussion thread, or create your own new Topics.
User avatar
Coondog
Posts: 1565
Joined: 2008 Jul 08 15:14

The LARGER Point

Postby Coondog » 2011 Aug 30 17:53

From what I can find out, the population of the U.S. in 1790 (about the time the ink dried on the Constitution) was around 3.9 million.

The population has, since, increased somewhat. And....will continue to do so. Government, as a matter of necessity, grows to accomodate not only the population but the ensuing complexities of advancing civilization. This should be patently obvious.

Like everything else that expands, there is going to be waste and there are going to be expenses which don't lead to much, advances and failures. Not to mention graft and corruption.

It's enough to identify and evaluate this stuff and try to make prudent adjustments when necessary. We could address a million small problems or simply eliminate big ones. Democrats are protective of programs they worked hard for for decades. Republicans are protective of corporations who punch their meal tickets. When rational minds prevailed, things could be accomplished....compromised, albiet laborously.

Government will expand no matter who is in charge. Whether we have more social workers or waterboarders depends on who gets more corporate campaign funds. That being true, it's likely the Republicans will eventually take over and address the economy.....after they have created a nationwide pregnancy monitoring system, started 5 more unfunded wars and replaced all existing amendments to the constitution with a defnse of marriage clause.

We can either start to deal with these situations logically and reasonably, without loosely based belief systems that run contrary to reality or we might as well divide up into teams and take up arms right now. Pick a flag!

I claim the stars and bars for my side!

Coondog :joker:

United we stand, divided we're.............Europe!

User avatar
Crux
Posts: 3206
Joined: 2010 Dec 16 19:44

All well and good BUT

Postby Crux » 2011 Aug 30 20:54

A couple points. Firstly on pointing out the fact that there is LESS money coming in because of the greqat recession/little depression. SURE. 2, 3 even 400 billion less. HECK. Say it's 500 billion less. Government SPENDING is UP UP UP. This years deficit is gonna be 1.65 TRILLION DUDE!

Now. NO S4!# Sherlock! Of course since 1790 both population and government have grown. Arguing in extremes and hyperbole misses the point. I am simply saying that our Federal Government could shrink by 30% this year and all would be well... The size and scope of governmental growth is on a much more RECENT moon-shot curve UPWARDS over the last LESS THAN ONE HUNDRED YEARS.

To think: NO FEDERAL INCOME TAX til like 1926. It really is amazing...

I do think you are clever and committed and your last post was pure character. I think you are mistaken of course about a great many things however. Have a great week though. Oh but before I go. On those wars, funded and started by our federal government, and bush/cheney... I suppose we must conclude certainly by this time that the strategy put forward THEN has been vindicated by the actions of THIS president. It might be SAD, but it is TRUE. :geek:
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

User avatar
Coondog
Posts: 1565
Joined: 2008 Jul 08 15:14

If not us....who?

Postby Coondog » 2011 Aug 31 10:35

I believe the upcoming FEMA funding debate will be one of those defining moments whereas the nature, character and intended function of the federal government may well be decided. The underlying issues are almost universally applicable to other governmental initiatives under attack. If not the federal government....who?

I'm waiting to see which corporation is going to step up and rebuild the roads in Connecticut, the Bridges in New Jersey or the beach fronts in North Carolina......or provide shelter and relief to the many thousands left bereft of home and possessions by Hurricane Irene or the next one......and the next one.

Amazing how quickly austerity fans like the Governor of NJ can poke their hands out to the federal government for aid when the electricity goes off in their state. I notice the corporate backers and super pacs who paid to get him elected are not being asked to pick up the bill. All of a sudden, Uncle Sam's checkbook looks awfully appealing.

The federal government is the ultimate expression of our collective response to natural disasters and social conundrums...because the solutions are too big for other people, institutions or states which would seek to address the problems to manage.....or for corporations who would never even consider trying.

My big fat federal government has shown that it is willing to go into hock to help out when the chips are down. And I appreciate that far more than the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" attitude of those who want to turn the entire government into stripped down, unfunded disfunctional ad hoc committee.

Coondog

PS1 The 40% of "the stimilus" that was tax cuts didn't work so well, either, eh?

PS2 Saying that corporations are persons (because there are people in them) is like saying a school bus is a person......or the Moose Lodge is a person because there are people (not real Moose) in it.

User avatar
Crux
Posts: 3206
Joined: 2010 Dec 16 19:44

So simple...

Postby Crux » 2011 Aug 31 13:20

Take money from somewhere else in the budget, and give it to FEMA. This will be the natural conservative response.
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

User avatar
Crux
Posts: 3206
Joined: 2010 Dec 16 19:44

Past Time to be honest with yourself here...

Postby Crux » 2011 Sep 08 19:34

I think this QUITE CLEAR. :twisted:
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

User avatar
Wise One
Posts: 1957
Joined: 2007 Nov 02 09:33

I Think I'm in Love

Postby Wise One » 2011 Sep 22 13:52

Common sense is so difficult to find these days.

"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

User avatar
Crux
Posts: 3206
Joined: 2010 Dec 16 19:44

You would.

Postby Crux » 2011 Sep 22 18:39

It is total crap. First of all the Factory Owner paid for the roads and bridges too. In fact, he is one of the 50% of Americans that DO pay Federal Income Tax. HE takes on the burdens and risk. HE creates jobs. You are in LOVE?? :pat: Pathetic. I am not surprised that the Arrogant One, that ELITIST, would find favor with such bureaucratic socialistic thinking. :coffee:

You and Amy can take her Caddie to the next fund raiser.
Wear your tie-dies Dudes!!

crux
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

User avatar
Neck-aint-red
Posts: 354
Joined: 2008 Apr 08 14:08

Re: Crash / Recession!

Postby Neck-aint-red » 2011 Sep 23 07:11

In the Bizarro world of the radical conservative fanatic,
  • General Electric pays no taxes on its $billions, and is "just folks" we should direct ever more givaways toward
  • The ordinary, honest schlemiel of a citizen pays 25% of his income and is considered "elitist"

    But Nobody Pays That
    G.E.’s Strategies Let It Avoid Taxes Altogether
    Published: March 24, 2011

    General Electric, the nation’s largest corporation, had a very good year in 2010. The company reported worldwide profits of $14.2 billion, and said $5.1 billion of the total came from its operations in the United States. Its American tax bill? None. In fact, G.E. claimed a tax benefit of $3.2 billion.

    That may be hard to fathom for the millions of American business owners and households now preparing their own returns, but low taxes are nothing new for G.E. The company has been cutting the percentage of its American profits paid to the Internal Revenue Service for years, resulting in a far lower rate than at most multinational companies.

User avatar
Crux
Posts: 3206
Joined: 2010 Dec 16 19:44

Don't be a goof.

Postby Crux » 2011 Sep 23 07:18

Dig into the GREEN reasons GE doesn't pay. Go get answers from your confidence men BO, and JI.

Not only does that factory owner pay taxes, but HUGE taxes. 10% of folks pay 70% of the taxes. 1% pays 40%. :hello2:

Thank your lucky stars for the wealth creators and the productive class of folks in this country.
________________________________________________________________________________

What we NEED is more Factory Owners, not more taxes on factory owners!!
EVERYONE certainly does drive the highways, but NOT NEARLY everybody OPENS FACTORIES. TOUGHEN UP OUT THERE!!! :director:

crux

PS... Hey Neck! Who the hell said THIS? "The ordinary, honest schlemiel of a citizen pays 25% of his income and is considered "elitist"". Could you give me WHAT led you to this ONE of your TWO enlightening insights to this, "BIZARRO WORLD" of yours? Your filter is clogged my friend. :tiphat:
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

User avatar
Amy Probenski
Posts: 457
Joined: 2007 Aug 28 17:06

Re: Crash / Recession!

Postby Amy Probenski » 2011 Sep 23 09:49

You nailed it with that one, Neck. (I assume you were replying to some inane comment by our own village idiot, the foe filter mercifully sparing me from his scrawlings.)

Here's another example, "Class Warfare," of the radical right using a term exactly backwards.

User avatar
Crux
Posts: 3206
Joined: 2010 Dec 16 19:44

What are you Citing? Kruggy!?? You are too far gone...

Postby Crux » 2011 Sep 23 11:50

"Meanwhile, over the same period, the income of the very rich, the top 100th of 1 percent of the income distribution, rose by 480 percent. No, that isn’t a misprint. In 2005 dollars, the average annual income of that group rose from $4.2 million to $24.3 million." This is what Kruggy said...

Now you are not really discerning here FoAmy.
"ONE one HUNDREDTH of ONE percent". This is one person, in 100,000. This is the wealthiest 400 in the US. That's about 10,000 million dollars in gross annual income. This big bad 10 billion is gonna do what... This is just PUNISHMENT. Get a grip. SEIZE every dollar. PRETEND you could do it every year. HATE.

I can not bear to call it a LIBERAL beat-down, as I have too much respect for Liberty itself. :usa2:

There are a lot of working hard playing hard Americans out there, of all income levels. Make no mistake here.
Simple wealth confiscation through further taxation of this very group, this despised Class, by the Leftist Enforcer accomplishes exactly what? The left is ready to go to war against, "The Rich"?? Pitiful.
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

User avatar
Coondog
Posts: 1565
Joined: 2008 Jul 08 15:14

That's of little consequense!

Postby Coondog » 2011 Sep 23 15:57

These people GOT rich by making use of all the provisions and advantages and resources available in this country and provided by ALL of us.

And....no....opportunity is on not an equal footing. I didn't inherit a vast energy company like the KOCH Brothers.

It seens these two have enhanced their personal fortunes to the tune of 15 extra billion while at the same time laying off tens of thousands of employees. Same with Exxon.

These "job creators" will not suffer if their tax burdon goes up 3%! They will not "create" less jobs. They will not face foreclosure or be forced to scavange in dumpsters for their next meal.

They're not crying for themselves the way YOU cry for them. They're laughing through their smug, old leathery faces!

The difference between the Koch brothers (conservatives) and Warren Buffet (liberal?) is that the Koch brothers are money grubbing, selfish douchbags....that and about 15 billion.

Are you telling me that these guys, who have about $143,000 for every man, woman and child in this country shouldn't be accountable for some of the maintenance and repair of the country they exploit on a daily basis?

Well.......yes you are!

Maybe you do, but I don't have the ability to pay enough taxes to make a difference. But, the, I don't have the ability to fire 25,000 people, either.

Coondog :thumdwn:

How many tax cuts do we have to give the rich and their corporations before we realise they are not going to hire anybody or invest in the same country they have already completely looted?

Corporations may be people.....but they're not Americans!
-Jon Stewart

User avatar
Juggler
Posts: 710
Joined: 2007 Jun 11 03:51

Re: Crash / Recession!

Postby Juggler » 2011 Sep 23 17:20

I'll believe a corporatio­n is a person when Texas executes one.

User avatar
Crux
Posts: 3206
Joined: 2010 Dec 16 19:44

Payback is coming and the Dems know it... NOVEMBER 2012

Postby Crux » 2011 Sep 27 20:40

"You have to have more ability from Congress, I think, to work together and to get over the partisan bickering and focus on fixing things. I think we ought to suspend, perhaps, elections for Congress for two years and just tell them we won't hold it against them, whatever decisions they make, to just let them help this country recover. I really hope that someone can agree with me on that. The one good thing about Raleigh is that for so many years we worked across party lines. It's a little bit more contentious now but it's not impossible to try to do what's right in this state. You want people who don't worry about the next election."

DEM governor Bev Purdue

Partisan Bickering, Heated Rhetoric, Compromise...
The Dem double standards REALLY are pathetic, and folks are wising up.
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

User avatar
Buck Turgidson
Posts: 108
Joined: 2011 Mar 10 22:48

Re: Crash / Recession!

Postby Buck Turgidson » 2011 Sep 28 01:50

Image

User avatar
Coondog
Posts: 1565
Joined: 2008 Jul 08 15:14

Re: Crash / Recession!

Postby Coondog » 2011 Sep 28 10:57

Thank you, Buck, for that graphic representation of stark reality.

There should be a mandate to post that chart at every polling place in the country in 2012. Every voter should be required to look at it before casting a ballot.

Of course, conservatives, tea party fanatics, country rock singers and Jeff Foxworthy fans will find this so fundamentally opposed to what they say and believe (or say they believe), they will likely still be staring, agape, at it long after the polls close.

Coondog :pompom:

Then......... there's the likely response, "Looky thar, Bessie! Reagan whupped thum all agin'!"

User avatar
Crux
Posts: 3206
Joined: 2010 Dec 16 19:44

Dear Buckoon,

Postby Crux » 2011 Sep 28 12:38

You two are acting out your foolishness and inability to discern. No inclusion of any analysis of historical circumstance or even of the SCALE of things. Sheer avoidance of some obviously relevant considerations. Tell me now. What was Bush's LARGEST deficit? Last year right? 455 billion or so, right? Obama's? For three years running give us an average please... 1.5 TRILL?? As well, TOTAL apathy tho the growth and scope of Federal Government Mandates Regulation and Spending. For example what were the average annual BUDGETS for our ENTIRE Federal Government in the 1990's, versus today's Obama DEFICITS?

November 2012 might be painful this election cycle... :geek: Too many now are awake to reality you fail to acknowledge.

crux
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

User avatar
Coondog
Posts: 1565
Joined: 2008 Jul 08 15:14

Re: Crash / Recession!

Postby Coondog » 2011 Sep 29 10:59

Thank you for validating my hypothesis, crux!

Nothing like a visual to get the old synapses to throwing up barricades, eh?

Coondog :joker:



I mean, who ya gonna believe? The U.S.Treasury......or the Right Wing Blogisphere who obtain their "facts" through astrological extraction? Oh.....Right! Your theory is the Government is full of incompetant morons and liars, so electing more republicans is a way of prooving the theory?

User avatar
Crux
Posts: 3206
Joined: 2010 Dec 16 19:44

"OCCUPY WALLSTREET" SNL spoiler alert!!

Postby Crux » 2011 Oct 03 20:59

This is AWESOME preview footage of this weeks Saturday Night Live!
Love that Revolutionary Anarchist Event Organizer character and the guy that does Sharpton, is AWE-SOME!!! :thumbup:
His monologue is SICK! :dance14: GO AL!!! These two are like modern GANGSTERS! :gun2:

crux
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...

User avatar
Crux
Posts: 3206
Joined: 2010 Dec 16 19:44

The Mainstream OCCUPY Movement

Postby Crux » 2011 Oct 16 09:22

They have lovely chants: F*** THE USA!!!

These Cats are so Mainstream Dude! This ain't your Grandma's Tea Party... :nono:
crux identifies with American Principles. Personal Liberty, Respect and Limited government.
He is a classic liberal, a libertarian at heart, and a conservative in the classical sense...