Unchecked Power

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fangz1956
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Unchecked Power

Postby fangz1956 » 2008 Sep 22 08:41

Ok gang.......light up the switchboards in D.C. if you haven't done so already. The runaway train has got to be stopped now. I spent the better part of yesterday letter writing and did so again this morning after reading what this bailout proposal says in a nut shell: (This was found in a link in Open Salon).
1. No contracting provisions: means that they crony contracts and the people that made the mess will profit from cleaning it up. Section 2b2
2. They included commercial real estate. That was not the understanding. (section 12(1)
3. No supervision of the Treasury by administrative agencies or courts.(section 8)
This is more than a smack in the face to the citizenry. This goes beyond highway robbery and looks like fascism coming home to roost. Somewhere this morning, I read a tiny little article that says these yahoos have already seized Ameribank....a WV banking chain. Who is next? Your hometown bank? Your home? Your farm? Your business?
We are being :potty5:
Ever looked at someone and thought "the wheel is turning but the hamster is dead"?

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fangz1956
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Re: Unchecked Power

Postby fangz1956 » 2008 Sep 22 08:46

A few excerpts:
On 9/22/2008 Paul Krugman of the NYT wrote:Krugman: Cash for Trash

How does this resolve the crisis?

Well, it might — might — break the vicious circle of deleveraging ... Even that isn’t clear ... And even if the vicious circle is limited, the financial system will still be crippled by inadequate capital.

Or rather, it will be crippled by inadequate capital unless the federal government hugely overpays for the assets it buys, giving financial firms — and their stockholders and executives — a giant windfall at taxpayer expense. Did I mention that I’m not happy with this plan?
emphasis added
I believe this is exactly the plan - to buy assets at premium prices and thereby recapitalize the banks. As I noted earlier, this will probably be successful in getting the banks to lend again, but that "success" would come at an astronomical cost to taxpayers. And there would probably be other unintended consequences.
The logic of the crisis seems to call for an intervention ... but ... the financial system needs more capital. And if the government is going to provide capital to financial firms, it should get what people who provide capital are entitled to — a share in ownership, so that all the gains if the rescue plan works don’t go to the people who made the mess in the first place.
The current plan is vague, opaque, has almost no oversight, puts the taxpayers at extreme risk and encourages future moral hazard.

A better plan would be transparent (all deals would be publicized), involve a share in ownership for the taxpayers, and have substantial oversight. We can do better.
Ever looked at someone and thought "the wheel is turning but the hamster is dead"?

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Uji
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Re: Unchecked Power

Postby Uji » 2008 Sep 22 14:26

Thanks, Fangz. I'm heading to the P.O. right now!

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fangz1956
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Re: Unchecked Power

Postby fangz1956 » 2008 Sep 22 18:32

You're welcome, Uji. This is and will be interesting to watch unfold. It ain't over 'til the fat lady sings.......or the fat cats cry "Uncle".

Now, from across the pond. These are great. The first deals with the UK's plight (hmmmm....global economy or global gambling?) and the Bank of England.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... .economics

And this one is rich. I think Peter McKay is my new hero.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... spivs.html

And just for laughs (God knows we all need one), there is this:

http://www.buymyshitpile.com/


:craz:
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fangz1956
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Re: Unchecked Power

Postby fangz1956 » 2008 Sep 23 08:58

A couple more items of interest:

http://balloon-juice.com/?p=11384

http://www.thisisby.us/index.php/conten ... _state#top


Thinking back to the debates during the early days of the primary, the events of the day certainly point to all the things Ron Paul had to say about the Federal Reserve and the unsound monetary policy of this nation.


:hmm:
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fangz1956
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Re: Unchecked Power

Postby fangz1956 » 2008 Sep 23 16:41

This guy gets the prize for the week. He has nailed it dead on:

On September 23, 2008 funktup in The Guardian wrote:"Have you noticed that all the right wing posters that normally bombard the Guardian comments pages have gone silent?"

Yeah that is true!!

They probably are all too busy stressing about how to unwind financial positions, sell their shares, and get their 3rd home's on the market. Poor bastards.

Personally I think the best thing either the UK or US government can do at this time is absolutely NOTHING. No bailing out of toxic debt, no more nationalisation, no more tax cuts to fund the housing market, no increased borrowing to fund the public sector's increasing wages and certainly no more trying to start costly wars all over the world as well as a new cold one.

Let the markets fall, let the housing bubble burst, let the bankers lose their jobs and stop trying to police the world with military aggression.

The bush/blair/brown years will go down in history as the most damaging our societies have ever seen. We have yet to hit rock bottom and move on.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
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fangz1956
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Re: Unchecked Power

Postby fangz1956 » 2008 Sep 24 09:16

Time to wake up, boys and girls. Anybody that thinks this plan to bailout Wall Street is a good one, needs to do some serious rethinking about that.

Let us not forget who really controls Congress....................WALL STREET!!!!

:angry4:
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Wise One
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Re: Unchecked Power

Postby Wise One » 2008 Sep 24 09:55

The chutzpah of this crowd has no limits.

Smart people know and have been stressing that regulation of the financial industry is crucial, and that changes must be undertaken very carefully. And yet Republicans foisted irresponsible deregulation upon us.

Now that yet another Republican disaster is clear to all, Republicans want total power, right now, to transfer another Trillion dollars from you to their friends, without controls or oversight or appeal, and to immunize all against litigation.

Debate in Congress? Republicans want no debate, saying it's just too important to wait. They loot for 8 years, must finally admit to error, and now want instant and total authority to do even more looting. They've raised the art of the "protection racket" to an entirely new level.

:tongue3: Hey, I can handle money poorly too. Please send me a few $Billion, by tomorrow. (please remit in Euros) :tongue3:
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Uji
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Re: Unchecked Power

Postby Uji » 2008 Sep 24 11:57

This is exactly how we got into Iraq. The congress punted, giving the administration a blank check. The same administration wants another blank check.

This will be a wonderful test of just how irretrievably insane we actually are.

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Juggler
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Re: Unchecked Power

Postby Juggler » 2008 Sep 24 14:11

Uji wrote:This will be a wonderful test of just how irretrievably insane we actually are.

I'm afraid I know the answer already.

:rant: Hide your checkbook. :rant:

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fangz1956
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Re: Unchecked Power

Postby fangz1956 » 2008 Sep 24 18:19

On Sept 24, 2008 the Associated Press wrote:House Speaker Nancy Pelosi met with administration officials and then told reporters, "We're moving in a productive direction." She declined to discuss specifics.

Amid speculation that votes on any legislation could slip into next week, she said, "We'll finish it when it's ready. I'd rather it be sooner rather than later."

She has insisted Republican lawmakers must stand up for their own president's proposal, but they appear anything but eager to do so.

This crazy woman needs to be relieved of her duties as Speaker of the House....and perhaps run out of Congress altogether. This is the person who always seems to be at the center of center of Congressional capitulation.....along with Harry Reid.

:banghead:
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Uji
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Re: Unchecked Power

Postby Uji » 2008 Sep 25 09:23

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this, Fangz. Pelosi and Reid are not my ideal politicians but they are more than just "incrementally better" than the two who occupied their position before they came to power. Maybe we could get Trent Lott to come back our of retirement; he'd do a lot better, right?

I'd like the ideal legislation, too. But we don't get ideal, we get compromise. Pelosi -- if she's behind the current plan -- is surely compromising too much. But she doesn't get the last word. I, for one, will continue to urge my reps to do something a bit better than that; but a compromise is all any of us can hope for.

Maybe Pelosi and Reid are crooks; maybe they've got all sort of evil, ulterior motives for the way they behave; but I don't believe it. Personally, I think everyone up there wants the best for the country at this moment -- they want the best for their Party, too, but I don't imagine they see the two hopes as contradictory. We might, but since we elected the buggers, we might take some of the responsibility by giving them the benefit of the doubt.

Make the pols pay at the ballot box, but we got to offer them some sort of support while they are trying to do their jobs.

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fangz1956
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Re: Unchecked Power

Postby fangz1956 » 2008 Sep 25 09:30

Uji......

I must respectfully disagree with you.


:wink:
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Uji
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Re: Unchecked Power

Postby Uji » 2008 Sep 25 09:33

Uji wrote:I'd like the ideal legislation, too. But we don't get ideal, we get compromise.


Just saw this at reuters, first look at what this compromise might look like:
http://www.reuters.com/article/politics ... W320080925

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Uji
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Re: Unchecked Power

Postby Uji » 2008 Sep 25 09:38

Hi, Fangz. You still there? Weird having messages cross like this.

Okay, you disagree. So, we shouldn't seek compromise, we should only seek whatever we think is the best, even if others thing "the best" is in another direction. Then all legislation is pure, brute force: if I've got more votes then you, then you LOSE. If you've got more than me, than I LOSE.

Surely you don't mean this, do you?

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fangz1956
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Re: Unchecked Power

Postby fangz1956 » 2008 Sep 25 16:44

Uji wrote:Personally, I think everyone up there wants the best for the country at this moment -- they want the best for their Party, too, but I don't imagine they see the two hopes as contradictory. We might, but since we elected the buggers, we might take some of the responsibility by giving them the benefit of the doubt.

This is where I disagree with you.......with all due respect. I have no problem with compromise. No relationship of any sort stands any chance of survival and nothing fruitful and long lasting comes forth without the fine art of compromise. I did vote for my two Senators but not for my Congressman. My Congressman is a do-nothing for the constituency and favors the big boys........and somehow manages to run unopposed in every election to date. I have never and will never pull the lever beside his name just because his name is on the ballot.

Sooooo..................I did NOT elect all of the buggers in D.C. I needn't give benfit of the doubt to people I did not elect and do not trust. There may be some in Congress who have the best interest of the people at heart but there a lot that do not. Pelosi, Reid, and Hoyer are among that latter group. Among the former, I would have to give credit to Frank of PA and Shelby of Alabama. Pelosi's comment of expectation that the Republicans should just blindly back this plan because it is another edict from a Republican Shrub, is a slap in the face to the intelligence and spirit of the American people. What is this? You are no longer allowed to question and disagree with the leader of your party? You're elected to represent "we the people" but you are required to just sit back and be a "yes man"? That just doesn't fly in my book. She's a loon and needs to step down.

:2cent:
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fangz1956
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Re: Unchecked Power

Postby fangz1956 » 2008 Sep 25 17:01

On September 25, 2008 Congressman Ron Paul wrote:My Answer to the President
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Uji
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Re: Unchecked Power

Postby Uji » 2008 Sep 26 12:59

Well, Fangz, I guess we've each said what we wanted to say. I don't think your characterization of my position is fair or reasonable, but there's nothing I can do about that -- certainly no point in saying it again.

Personally, I feel a degree of responsibility for those people who are acting in my name, even though I didn't vote for them. We -- the people -- elected those folks. And I don't feel that, since I didn't vote for them, I can just write them off as self-serving nin-com-poops. Nor do I feel that I am removed from all responsibility for what they do. But that's me. Clearly you are of a different mind.

Good luck, with Paul. If Obama's a fascist, I can see why Paul is your man.

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fangz1956
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Re: Unchecked Power

Postby fangz1956 » 2008 Sep 26 17:49

Oh dear Uji........

Just because we find ourselves at an impasse on a point or two, is no reason for either of us to get our knickers in a knot.
First of all, I never said Obama was a fascist........the article in the RT pointed to the backing of what I see as a fascist plan as laid out by Paulson, et.al. I am not (and doubt that you are either) in favor of giving carte blanche to the Treasury department and the Fed. Good grief!! They helped to create this ginormic mess!

While Congress may be acting in my name and yours, that is no reason to fail in MY personal responsibility to speak and be vocal about the whole thing to those same people acting in my name. To not speak and to not question and to just blindly accept whatever they throw out is wrong........IMHO. Some of the things that have transpired in hammering out this bill in recent days have not been all bad. Some excellent suggestions have come to light. Whether or not the right thing gets done for the benefit of all, remains to be seen.

But........I still think Pelosi is a loon!!

:wink:
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Uji
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Re: Unchecked Power

Postby Uji » 2008 Sep 27 14:08

No knickers here. I always work at the computer naked. Doesn't everyone?

I don't believe I suggested that you blindly accept anything, or to stop speaking out. I think that I said something about giving folks the benefit of the doubt...

In any event, I just don't find the demonization of pols or policies very useful -- or very humane.

Maybe if I wore knotted kickers...