The Other War

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fangz1956
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The Other War

Postby fangz1956 » 2008 Mar 09 23:42

There is another losing and costly war being waged in this country. It doesn't seem to be as much in the spotlight anymore these days............sadly, it gets buried by Iraq, the economy, healthcare, and this crazy election year. The funny thing is that all of those affect and are affected by The Other War. The Other War props up this economy AND has the power (and has done so in the past) to fund wars we wage against other nations. The Other War has caused serious over-crowding of jails and prisons. The Other War is a great contributor to racial profiling. The Other War has had a major hand in the staggering rise in cases of Hepatitis C and AIDS worldwide. The Other War costs us far more than money and we are losing it. It is time to end The Other War and look for new answers and solutions to the problem. This 30+ year war hasn't solved or changed a thing. The Other War is the War on Drugs.

The General Assembly in Richmond is looking to cut all state funding to the drug courts over the next two years. The cost of having a person in the drug court system is $3000 per year. The cost of incarcerating that person for one year is $20,000. I am speaking here of non-violent drug offenders, the majority of which suffer from substance abuse and addiction problems. Persons such as this who enter the drug court program are given opportunities for treatment for their addiction, they work and pay taxes, and have the chance to reunite with their families. Can we say anything that positive from a societal viewpoint about the results of incarcerating those same people? I don't think we can. Wouldn't the money be better spent getting people back to being responsible and productive members of society? I think so.

I happened catch a film the other night titled American Drug. It chronicled the drug war in this country since its inception and included the story of racial profiling and ethnic cleansing in Tulia, Texas to the Iran-Contra Affair when the CIA funneled massive amounts of cocaine into California in order to fund the Contras in Nicaragua in their overthrow of the Sandinistas. It continued on through today with how the war in the Middle East and the overthrow of the Taliban has actually INCREASED production of opium poppies for the manufacture and marketing of heroin(and I'm not talking about parmaceutical heroin for pain relief here). Thank you, Uncle Sam! Can we say Lawyers, Guns, and Money???


In order to fully understand what is happening today and some of the whys and wherefores, it was necessary for me to do a little trippin' back in time. The reading is interesting and revealing (even if it is a little dusty) and is just as important today regarding this subject as it was when the actual events occurred.

http://www.dailypress.com/news/local/ne ... 3202.story

http://www.ci.richmond.va.us/departments/adultdrug/

http://www.jwharrison.com/blog/2006/12/ ... he-masses/

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1213-31.htm

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/forum/octob ... _11-1.html

http://www.americandrugwar.com/new/ross.htm

http://www.streetgangs.com/magazine/freewayrick.html

http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/special/9712/ch06p1.htm

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline ... rugs/cron/

http://www.drugpolicy.org/drugwar/

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0820-06.htm

:wink:
Ever looked at someone and thought "the wheel is turning but the hamster is dead"?

Renegade Mom
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Re: The Other War

Postby Renegade Mom » 2008 Mar 10 07:57

GREAT POST!!!

This is a good synopsis of a terrible injustice to the American people. It is another good example of our hypocrisy, self-delusions and greed. The so-called "War on Drugs" is a sham, and has torn the fabric of this nation.

The links you provided flesh-out the issue in all its complexity and simplicity. I am very familiar with the issue, but most are not. It is another one of our 'dirty little secrets'.

While you point out that 'the majority of (non-violent drug offenders) suffer from substance abuse and addiction problems', I would personally amend that statement to add that many of those people do not even have a 'substance abuse' problem, but rather choose to use an illegal substance (cannabis) for their purposes rather than the government sanctioned substances (alcohol and prescription drugs). There are thousands of decent, productive, (formerly) tax-paying citizens that are incarcerated for cannabis, which is far less harmful than alcohol and prescription anti-anxiety medications. The real drug problems are born out of our national addiction to pharmaceuticals and the lack of social programs/opportunities for the poor.

You point out the disparity in the cost per individual between 'drug court' and incarceration. What you overlooked mentioning is how building and running prisons is BIG BUSINESS. A small group of people are making obscene amounts of money locking people up. Just a couple of weeks ago, statistics were released about the insane number of Americans that are in prison (sorry, don't have time now to look up the exact number). And remember, these people do not have the right to vote, nor will likely have it after they are released (since they may be held on a felony drug charge). We create more disenfranchised people, directly and indirectly, as their families are burdened with this legal hardship as well as losing their formerly stable and productive loved-one.

We train our children from an early age to take drugs. Since I heard George Carlin's bit about "two in the mouth, son, two in the mouth", satirizing our national addiction to medications as a child over 30 years ago, the problem has grown tremendously. Kids are bombarded with television advertisements for drugs all day long, watch their parents popping anti-depressants (another national addiction...) and Xanax on a daily basis, and are even themselves pumped up with Ritalin and its brethren by the recommendation of their burned-out teachers and parents. Then we tell them "Don't do drugs". We may be fooled by our own hypocrisy, but our kids get it. And when they are told lies about the dangers of different drugs, they discount almost all the information they are being taught - both the truth and the lies.

I've had 2 kids go through the Rockbridge County schools K-12, and they report consistently over the years that the problems start at the middle-school level with kids experimenting with their parents prescriptions. I have overheard numerous instances of high-schoolers pilfering their parents Xanax and Ativan without anyone noticing. So many kids are stoned at school on their folks scripts at the same time their classmates can be crucified by the school for getting caught drinking beer at a dance. Not that this excuses underage drinking, but things are WAY out of balance and perspective. I'd like a survey of the teacher's and administrator's prescriptions and see how many of them are medicated at school.

Our "No Tolerance" policies for students is a sham. The administrator's know it is unreasonable, so they take it upon themselves to mete out consequences as they see fit on an individual basis. So when you get an real ass like the principle at RCHS, you have situations of great disparity in punishment. Last year we had a freshman girl bring bottled beer to school that rolled out of her purse onto the floor in class. She got 7-10 days of in-school suspension. A boy I know, a senior (18) and an honor student, went to a dance obviously intoxicated on alcohol (but not violent) and was arrested and put in jail, forced to undergo drug testing at his parent's expense (no drugs were involved in the incident), was also given in-school suspension for 2 weeks, was banned from all school activities for the rest of the year (inc. prom and senior trip), immediately kicked off the lacrosse team (where he was a star), and not even allowed to watch a practice or a game. He was humiliated and mocked by the manager of the lab (Rockbridge Laboratories) where he had to give urine samples. This whole experience left him crushed as well as punished. It also removed all peer support from and accountability to team. They could have provided a more constructive punishment and a positive push in the right direction. Luckily his family kept him from sinking into depression and/or going the way of the 'do-nothings' after school and weekends and really getting into drugs and alcohol. To make matters worse the principle lied to him and his family along the way. Talk about setting a youngster up to turn into a societal problem... (Luckily he got into his first choice college and pulled through his common childhood mistake despite the miscarriage of justice).

Anyway, I'd like to know what to do about this boondoggle issue of the "War on Drugs". No one seems interested. It seems to pacify some national guilty conscience about our own 'government-sanctioned' drug use. Pothibition is as stupid as prohibition, although I'd personally rather see more cannabis smoking than alcohol guzzling. Smokers don't get violent and aggressive. As long as it pays some corporate bigwigs and paybacks politicians, I think the "War on Drugs" scam will remain. What to do???

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Re: The Other War

Postby Wise One » 2008 Mar 10 13:03

"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Re: The Other War

Postby fangz1956 » 2008 Mar 10 22:41

Here is some further info about the film I watched. The full title is American Drug War: The Last White Hope. It is airing this month on Showtime. If you have access to that channel, it well worth a look. Here are links to a couple of clips from that film that can be found on YouTube.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rb4nr9ndYrA

http://youtube.com/watch?v=rIGExV-0n_Q&NR=1

More information about this film and its creator can be found at http://www.sacredcow.com/

I hear ya loud and clear, RenegadeMom......and I'm with you 100% and then some. There is so much to write about and so much that can be said that it is difficult to know where to begin. I am sure that some of friends think I'm a radical, insane nut job for the stand and views I take on this issue. Isn't that what most folks would think about a recovering addict who sees no harm in and supports the decriminalization of marijuana. Society(read power elite) jumps up and down and shouts that cannabis is a gateway drug. To that I say bull@#$%!!!! Unfortunately, I had to give it up for professional reasons known as random drug screening in the workplace. To be realistic, we don't want or need medical professionals to be impaired on the job but we discount and turn a blind to those who come to work under the influence of legal mood and mind altering pharmaceuticals. Cannabis will get you fired but Xanax or Valium will allow you to keep working. Go figure!

I was thinking about RenegadeMom's post today when I went to pick up my 16 year old after school. I thought about all the money spent (taxpayer money) to put a DARE officer in every school. From what I understand from my daughter and her most recent DARE class, the officer at her school uses arrogant scare tactics and tells these kids he will search until he finds something to charge them with. In her younger years, the DARE officers actually encouraged the children to rat out their parents who smoked cannabis. This is my tax money at work?!? To the credit of the children and their parents, none of them did so to my knowledge. Kids are not as dumb and gullible as the government and law enforcement seems to think they are......and that's a good thing. I thought about the lacrosse player who was run through the wringer for doing the very same things I did at that age. My son played football in his HS years and all of the players had to sign a contract vowing to be drug, alcohol, and nicotine free in order to be a part of the team and be eligible to play. This piece of paper is a joke. It would not be so bad if the consequences for breaking the contract were uniformly enforced but they are not. What applies to the lacrosse team, the baseball team, the basketball team doesn't apply to the football team. The latter can get away with murder and be treated like royalty by the coaches, teachers, and principals. Over the years, I have met a number of the football players and I know how this game gets played. I know what these boys do when they think nobody is looking and they get away with it. The sad part is that a lot of these are NOT honor students and are being passed by their teachers just so they can remain eligible to play. (Gotta stop.......digressing and derailing from the topic at hand). Back to the lacrosse player..............the person at the lab needs to be fired. That person crossed a line of professional ethics that should never be crossed. We are there to help and to do NO harm. I hope that boy's parents go after that person's job.

I did some perusing of the VHSL website this afternoon.....followed some links that took me to the National Federation of State High School Associations. There are a couple of articles there regarding drug testing in the schools. And yes, in some places it is already mandatory. I am still trying figure out how they decide who gets randomly chosen for testing in these places. If I read those articles correctly, it reads like some sort of profiling program and that disturbs me greatly. It is interesting to note that the drug the schools seem to be most concerned with is cannabis with comparatively little concern over alcohol and anabolic steroids. NONE of the schools surveyed had any real apparent interest in testing for anything other than illegal substances. The socially acceptable and legal ones are obviously not deemed to be a problem. What a nutty world we live in.

There was a tragedy here several years ago. There was a big party at the home of a doctor (the adults were out of town and the teenagers had the run of the house). The good doc kept pharmaceutical samples at home (as do many docs) and among them was Ritalin. Teenagers plus party plus Ritalin equals overdose and death. People need to understand that drugs like Ritalin have an amphetamine effect on normal people. They work in reverse on folks who are ADHD. So a child died, not from an illegal substance, but from a legal one. This is becoming a major crisis in this country as we have become the medicated masses and there is at least one pill for every ill and they are easily accessible. Direct marketing of pharmaceuticals to the public needs to stop. The only reason behind that kind of tactic is the sheer greed of Big Pharma. We only need look at the problems Big Pharma has created in society with drugs such as Oxycontin and Vioxx.........the cure is worse than the disease. The list goes on and on and on..............but it's legal and that makes it OK. But heaven forbid that somebody would want to put a Methadone clinic in your neighborhood. We went through that here and everybody was so convinced that this would exacerbate the drug problem in this valley. "Oh God......heroin addicts!!! They bring crime and they will lure our children into drug use and addiction". Yeah, right! The clinic got built and guess what? None of those fears spread by media propaganda have come to pass.

What I see is this. The "drug problem" in this country was intentionally created by a government as a way to control the people. The whole thing is a lucrative racket for the people in power. And think about Hurricane Katrina. Think about who was left behind in New Orleans......the poor, the black, and the drug addicted. Are we 100% positive that those levees broke without a little help from elsewhere? If you think about this in light of the story from Tulia, Texas, is it really beyond the realm of possibility?


:2cent:
Ever looked at someone and thought "the wheel is turning but the hamster is dead"?

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Re: The Other War

Postby fangz1956 » 2008 Mar 10 23:33

Ever looked at someone and thought "the wheel is turning but the hamster is dead"?

10thFO
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Re: The Other War

Postby 10thFO » 2008 Mar 11 18:48

If a drug is illegal then it is illegal. Of course that is what they are going to test for. Cannibas is legal too, if you have glaucoma. People abuse all sorts of drugs, but it has became an issue with some of the ones you are talking about lately.

Instead of worrying about the kids getting high on their parents Zanax, or Oxycontin, then how about worrying about the parents, knowing whether the kids are stealing their drugs or not. There has to be some parental consideration here. The Cannibas isn't bad, but everything else is?

I have smoked pot a couple times in my life. Less than 5. I have also drank, and I have also taken prescription pain killers. One of these is illegal, and is the reason, I don't do it on a more frequent basis. Even though many have told me it would make my pain feel better. Bottom line is it's against the law.

As for the athletes in HS, where the standards are different. Well, I hate to say this, but when did anyone say life is fair. Has this not always been the case? I've railed at the system long enough in my days, but I also understand that nothing will ever be judged in black and white. Life just isn't fair no matter how much we tell our kids, or how much it should be.

It is not right, but it is the way it is.

Maybe one day, we will live in a world where everything is judged equally and without prejudice but until that day happens to expect it and to teach our kids that "it is the way things are going to be" is not teaching them responsibly for the future.

Renegade Mom
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Re: The Other War

Postby Renegade Mom » 2008 Mar 12 07:43

I don't know if its a Venus/Mars thing, or a Renegade/Good Soldier thing, but I think we are on the wrong frequency...

Yes, life isnt fair. But when what we do individually or collectively reveals itself to be ill-conceived, stupid, harmful, overly-expensive or obsolete, it is not only appropriate but imperative to re-evaluate our decisions.

Lots of things have been illegal that are not now. How did that change? Because people questioned the value of the law, came up with a new idea, and then changed course. That becomes an element of social evolution.

What we are challenging here is the value system that favors creating a huge prison industry over other responses to a societal issue. What we are challenging is the blatant hypocrisy of those who may be in a position to influence, judge and punish others while they themselves indulge in similar behavior yet are 'excused' by a very thin line. What we are challenging are the mixed messages we send our children and how that defeats our stated purpose.

What we are challenging is the HUGE cost to our country and how that can be viewed as another means of government suppression, especially of the poor.

Where did you get the idea that we are not concerned with parental responsibility for kids stealing meds??? That's exactly what I'm talking about!

The value of cannibis was a secondary or tertiary sub-topic here. The ass-backwards treatment of cannibis in comparison to other substances was more to the point. It may be acceptable to some to shrug their shoulders and say 'oh well' its illegal and the other things are not, but I find this a cop-out on many levels. If you don't want your kids to grow up seasoned pill-poppers, then set an example for them. If you think cannabis is a legitimate herbal remedy (for lots of things BTW) then teach your kids how to indulge without getting caught and how they will have to take FULL responsibility if they do get caught.

Cannibis is NOT legal for glaucoma or even the treatment of chemotherapy effects except for in a few states. The Federal Government is actively attacking those states and anyone they can catch because they contend that it is still illegal under Federal guidelines. California smokers clubs (for medical use) have been attacked under these protocols.

And BTW, the parents of the LAX player reminded him repeatedly that he had to take responsibility for his mistake, fair or not. They did not start a fight with the school or school board but they did let their kid know that the way he was being treated was a bit fascist. The kid actually received a lot of support from teachers and other adults who scolded him for his stupidity, reinforced the concept of him standing up and taking responsibility for his transgression, and OPENLY railed against the stupidity, hypocrisy and mean-spiritedness of the way he was treated. Actually, compared to some other kids who got in trouble for the same offense the year before, he got off easy - the others were expelled. Again, this points out how there really is not a workable policy within our school system, rather arbitrary decisions are being left to dubious administrators.

Should we really 'throw away' good kids who make a mistake? it is basic knowledge that teenagers make lots of stupid mistakes. This is the time of life to do stupid things. Except for the most extreme things, specifically related to guns and violence, I reject "NO Tolerance" policies. In most cases, a level of tolerance is a wise choice. And how about these little kids who get suspended for having a pen knife? Can we inject some common sense into these situations? Not when "No Tolerance" is in place. You know teen depression and suicide are a big societal problem, too. Maybe we can do better than crucifying kids for smaller scale mistakes. What happened to community service??? That's a much more constructive alternative in my mind.

In conclusion, I have suffered with chronic pain issues since I was a teenager. I made a decision at 17 to eschew prescription painkillers because I did not want to become dependent on pills and Big Pharma, suffer the side effects, and define my life by my pain. Cannabis has always been a blessing and a help for me when it has crossed my path. I dream of someday moving to Hawaii where I can get a prescription to grow 7 plants in my kitchen garden. Here in Virginia, you are better off shooting someone in the leg than getting caught with a sack of buds. Malicious wounding will get you a slap on the wrist (No!No!), but cannabis will put you in jail. That's screwed up! And, yeah, that's the way it is!

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Jail!

Postby Juggler » 2008 Mar 17 21:14


10thFO
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Re: The Other War

Postby 10thFO » 2008 Mar 25 13:28

Renegade Mom,

Let me apologize, for cruising off course. Must have been one of those durg induced dazes that they warn me not to drive on.

I do agree with the assessment of the Prison system. I think there is nothing more ludicrous than the county trying to build a bigger jail. There was a pretty good piece in one of the local papers a couple weeks ago about the whys and why nots of not needing it here. Pointing the finger at the judges and a commonwealth attorneys office hell bent on throwing everyone into the pokey for even some slight discretions.

I realize that there are many things that are illegal that are later overturned and found to be ridiculous. Sort of like sodomy laws and the such in my opinion. I personally don't care if they overturn the ban on Mary Jane. It is my belief that if they would legalize drugs it would be less of a problem. Of course we'd still have underaged drug use, but maybe with legal drugs we could quit making new ones out of stuff that is found underneath the kitchen sink.

The biggest boon to overturning the laws against it would be tax revenue. Then again, it seems that this country is hell bent on stopping people from smoking so who knows if anything will every change. Imagine if we had prohibition now, it would never get overturned again.

Let me reiterate that while I think parents and children should stand up for what is right, I also think it is our duty as parents to make sure they understand that just because something isn't fair, doesn't always means somebody owes you something. I'm all for responsibility on a personal and corporate level. If there is a wrong done, then it should be addressed, but I see far to many people getting hung up on the wrongs in their life, that they miss any chance of all the rights that could happen.

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Good Sense ... Finally

Postby Neck-aint-red » 2008 Apr 12 17:39

Here's something that comes from a very smart, very experienced law enforcement official with a wealth of first-hand knowledge.

on this subject I've seen for a long time.

:clap: Evidently, Common Sense ain't so Common :clap:

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Re: The Other War

Postby fangz1956 » 2008 Apr 13 17:15

Thanks for the article. Sometimes when I am working long stretches, I don't get a chance to sit and read the paper.....and this is one of those times. I agree 100% with article and with the sad fact that common sense seems to be becoming a thing of the past. I have never been one that approved of the legislation of morality and personal choice. There is something egregiously wrong with that concept. I could go off on a rant here but I won't.

Suffice it to say that I think the government (of which the schools are a part) have no business and no right doing this kind of thing. The schools already seem to have adopted the mindset that they own the children and the parents are nothing more than a nuisance. I think they are working to effectively remove the "P" from PTA..................with the permission of parents who lack common sense. The reading I have done on this issue has revealed shocking plans nationwide and these plans look like ways to further divide the students into "classes" and to brand certain undesirables as trouble-makers (undesirable meaning kids who come from families who have a strong belief in personal liberty and freedom).

We all know what problems free-thinking creates in society as free-thinkers don't fit the prescribed government box or mold. We are viewed as a threat to society as a whole when the exact opposite is the truth of the matter. So the Big Brother solution is to randomly search and seize (randomly being used loosely here as the persons actually searched are pretty well targeted in advance and those targets do not generally include football players or kids from wealthy families) and weed out the "undesirables". Then they can be suspended or expelled from school with little or no chance of returning. "Random" search and seizure will accomplish the things that Ritalin failed to do.............giving the school system a hand-picked, and mindless student body. Hmmm.........kind of smacks of Hitler's Germany and the Aryan Youth.

:2cent:
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Re: The Other War

Postby fangz1956 » 2008 Apr 19 05:15

Ever looked at someone and thought "the wheel is turning but the hamster is dead"?

paxham
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Re: The Other War

Postby paxham » 2008 Jun 04 20:22

Hello Rockbridge,

I think I've stayed out of this conversation for the most part. Let me say that I am neither a father nor a mother nor a soldier, so take that for what you will.

There are many other wars besides Iraq and Afganistan; Dafur and inumerable other conflicts in Africa for the most part. Strangely I can't think of anything else outside the continent of Africa. Further still, there are no demonstrations in DC. precious little coverage in the media and little or no US involvement, but for the people affected there is no less tragedy. Why is the AA lobby so silent? Why is the activist community so impotent?

This is really the subject for another thread. Perhaps I will start one, but I don't expect much reaction because American mothers and fathers are not mourning and the American media really doesn't care.

The dancing smilies in the sidebar mock me. There isn't one to express what I feel on this subject.

Paul Hammond
Richmond, VA

p.s. If I were in your shoes, I can't say what I would feel.


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Re: The Other War

Postby fangz1956 » 2008 Sep 06 05:05

Ever looked at someone and thought "the wheel is turning but the hamster is dead"?

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Re: The Other War

Postby fangz1956 » 2009 Apr 04 03:55

NEWSFLASH: WE ARE GOING AFTER THE WRONG DRUG!!!!

Yesterday, I had the privilege of escorting my daughter to court for the awarding of her official driver's license. The Commonwealth of Virginia is the only state in the Union that requires this for new drivers under the age of 18. In this area, the ceremony is led by the judge who heads the Juvenile & Domestic Relations Court for this part of the state. The whole thing lasted about two hours and was chock full of factual information. Some of it I knew and some of it was totally new to me. I guess things have changed (and not for the better) over the years. Some of the statistics quoted by the judge were shocking and sobering. Some of those facts follow here.

Every day, on average, 11,318 American youth (12 to 20 years of age) try alcohol for the first time, compared with 6,488 for marijuana; 2,786 for cocaine; and 386 for heroin.

Alcohol is a drug. It alters your mind, body and emotions. It is also our nation's largest youth drug problem, killing 6.5 times as many young people as all illicit drugs combined.

Children who are drinking alcohol by 7th grade are more likely to report academic problems, substance use, and delinquent behavior in both middle school and high school. By young adulthood, early alcohol use was associated with employment problems, other substance abuse, and criminal and other violent behavior.

Young people who begin drinking before age 15 are four times more likely to develop alcoholism than those who begin drinking at 21.

Teens who have a blood relative who suffers from alcoholism are 50 (yes 50) times more likely to develop alcoholism.

The costs to the United States of underage drinking is substantial. The National Academy of Sciences (NAS), Institute of Medicine released a landmark report to Congress in September 2003, "Reducing Underage Drinking: A Collective Responsibility", found that underage alcohol use costs the nation an estimated $53 billion annually, including:

Violent Crime: $29,368,000,000
Traffic Crashes: $19,452,000,000
Burns: $189,000,000
Drowning: $426,000,000
Suicide Attempts: $1,512,000,000
Fetal Alcohol Syndrome: $493,000,000
Alcohol Poisonings: $340,000,000
Treatment: $1,008,000,000
TOTAL: $52,788,000,000

The average age when youth first try alcohol is 11 years for boys and 13 years for girls.

It has been estimated that over three million teenagers are out-and-out alcoholics. Several million more have a serious drinking problem that they cannot manage on their own.

Annually, more than 5,000 deaths of people under age 21 are linked to underage drinking.

The three leading causes of death for 15- to 24-year-olds are automobile crashes, homicides and suicides -- alcohol is a leading factor in all three.

Approximately 25% of the alcoholics currently in the Virginia Court System are between the ages of 17 and 21, with the largest majority of that number being female.

And here's a little synopsis of the ceremony we attended today...as prescribed by Virginia law:

Court Licensing Ceremonies
To help new young drivers in Virginia learn about the legal responsibilities that accompany the privilege of having a driver's license, all license applicants under the age of 18 must appear with a parent or guardian at a court licensing ceremony to receive their driver's license. The ceremony is conducted by the judge of the juvenile and domestic relations court district in which the juvenile lives. Each ceremony is usually attended by 75–100 juveniles and their parents or guardians. Each judge has discretion in the design of the ceremony. These ceremonies serve to educate juveniles and parents about the risks involved in underage drinking and impaired driving and the legal consequences of violating the State's "use and lose" law and other laws related to underage drinking and impaired driving. Police officers may appear at these ceremonies as guest speakers to discuss the consequences of drinking and driving. Before receiving his or her child's license, a parent must pledge that he or she will not give the license to the child until they have discussed a strategy for handling potential drinking and driving situations. This action makes the parent an active participant in the process and a partner with the court. Community coalitions have successfully worked with the juvenile courts in Virginia to develop and implement such a program. An example of such a coalition/court collaborative effort is "Children at Risk Today" (CART) in Chesterfield County, Virginia (Police Executive Research Forum, in press). This strategy has not been evaluated.

YES.......I still have the new license in my possession. We have had numerous talks already on this subject and will definitely have a big one today. No open dIscussion=no license. Mom's rule and Mom's pledge to the judge.


:cool:
Ever looked at someone and thought "the wheel is turning but the hamster is dead"?

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Neck-aint-red
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Re: The Other War

Postby Neck-aint-red » 2009 May 14 11:00

President after president has trumpeted a wrong-headed "War on Drugs."

You see the result. How could anybody could think this is a good thing, that we should continue it or even accelerate cruel and ineffective steps that hurt millions and cost billions without any significant benefit?

I am so happy that, finally, an elected president and his appointee are willing to tell the truth and .

:usa2:

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Amy Probenski
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Re: The Other War

Postby Amy Probenski » 2009 Aug 20 07:31

Wow. There's a lot of by Kristof on crazy ideas Americans hold ... billions to jail folks who don't hurt people, but not one cent for education and health.

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Buck Turgidson
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Re: The Other War

Postby Buck Turgidson » 2011 Jun 11 07:45


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Neck-aint-red
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Re: The Other War

Postby Neck-aint-red » 2011 Dec 09 17:09


Frank Strickler
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Re: The Other War

Postby Frank Strickler » 2012 Jan 01 13:03

This time I must agree with you folks that I usually disagree with.

The government is OK with alcohol, the use of which causes thousands of traffic deaths. and violent acts by people who have had too much to drink.
However the government is against "POT" which makes people mellow, and the folks who use it do not cause nearly as many traffic deaths. Mostly they just eat too much and talk a lot. I believe based on contact with them that most "POT" smokers cause very few problems for anyone other than themselves.
As far as some of the things our government does for "OUR OWN GOOD" it would be better if they just stepped down and stayed out of our business.

Please understand that I'm one who drinks and does not use any drugs. I could be called a functioning alcoholic. Realizing this I know when to drink and when not to, and know not to drive a car or ride my motorcycle when I've been drinking. Also I'm considered a mellow drunk.


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