BANG !

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Wise One
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Re: BANG !

Postby Wise One » 2017 Jun 20 00:31

Cannoneer wrote:What is probably responsible for the high rate of murder and other crimes in the United States is the fact that lefty liberals have been making laws and policy for many years. There is no accountability for peoples actions.

This is mindless ideology speaking, no human thought involved.

The United States has the highest rate of incarceration of any country in the world. Cannoneer apparently wants even more.

The problem is not "no accountability". It is too much mindless and cruel punishment masquerading as "accountability", and too few sensible steps toward prevention of crime and violence.

:coffee:
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Cannoneer
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Re: BANG !

Postby Cannoneer » 2017 Jun 20 10:48

As usual your response is to claim that I don't think. I guess you really are stupid. You are stuck on the idea that guns are responsible for human actions and you are the one who does not think beyond your own bias ideas.

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Wise One
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Re: BANG !

Postby Wise One » 2017 Jun 20 11:47

Cannoneer wrote:You are stuck on the idea that guns are responsible for human actions ...

Exactly backwards. Human actions are responsible for guns, their dangerous ubiquity, and harmful use.

Those who value facts and accurate analysis recognize the danger in our country of too many guns in too many places in too many irresponsible hands and the lack of effective controls/regulations to make them safer.

Responsible people draw a line between acceptable and unacceptable dangers of items easily available to everybody. Here's mine:

Unacceptable
Nuclear weapons
Chemical weapons
Explosive munitions, bombs
Armed aircraft
Armed tanks
Armed military vehicles
Armed submarines
Military grade artillery
Military grade long guns
Unlicensed short and long guns
Guns on premises (car, house, or place of business) without demonstrated criteria for need
====================== My Line ==================
Guns kept off premises under custody of responsible organization until desired by the owner for necessary (short) time
Licensed long and short guns, training and competency criteria tested and required
Swords and Knives
Baseball bats
Slingshots
Rocks
Hands
Acceptable

Everything on the list can kill people.
Everything carries danger.
Those things below the line have been demonstrated globally to carry minimum risk.
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Cannoneer
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Re: BANG !

Postby Cannoneer » 2017 Jun 20 12:36

You forgot arsenic and oleander tea.
Do you really think that the lack of accountability isn't mostly to blame for the high crime rate?
50 years ago people who committed a crime and got caught paid a price for their actions. Even though there was more access to firearms there was less
violent crime than there is today and in the so called wild west people didn't just go around shooting each other. The few outlaws became famous because it took courage to rob a bank or a train where most of the men were armed. Sooner or later those outlaws paid for their actions.

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Wise One
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Joined: 2007 Nov 02 09:33

Re: BANG !

Postby Wise One » 2017 Jun 20 16:47

Cannoneer wrote:Do you really think that the lack of accountability isn't mostly to blame for the high crime rate? 50 years ago people who committed a crime and got caught paid a price for their actions.

Maybe we need to agree on what "accountability" means.

If you mean "punishment", then you are way wrong. We have many more people per capita languishing in jails today than 50 years ago, we're punishing to beat the band and paying $Billions cruelly and ineffectively. It's very clear that jailing more and more people for more and more crimes for longer and longer periods is, simply, stupid.

If "accountability" is defined as shared by all in order to get results that benefit all, then I'd agree we need more of it. We need to decriminalize many behaviors now punished as crimes, and we need to implement common sense safety measures that will protect us all. That is true accountability, for results and compassion.

I had an interesting conversation with a police chief recently. He said, "I can make the crime rate go up or down any time I want. I can arrest more or fewer people for drug offenses that hurt nobody. I choose to use common sense and use my enforcement discretion and resources for truly harmful crimes."

Our current despicable Attorney General has just the opposite point of view.

:coffee:
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Cannoneer
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Re: BANG !

Postby Cannoneer » 2017 Jun 21 09:07

You may not believe this, but I agree with your entire last post.
As to why I think so many people are serving time is something I would blame on the people who make the laws.
Parents can go to jail for simply spanking their own children. Teachers cannot discipline their students, looting during riots is mostly ignored by law enforcement. No one is held accountable for their actions while growing up so they do as they choose when they are adults.
I'm going to turn 81 on July 5 and I see a change in society now from when I was a young man. I see the current generation as the "ME FIRST PEOPLE"

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Wise One
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Re: BANG !

Postby Wise One » 2017 Jun 23 06:59

Well good.

The perspective of numbers is probably useful.
  • Not many parents can go to jail for simply spanking their own children.
  • Teachers can discipline their students. Physical assault is properly unlawful and is, thankfully, rare.
  • Looting during riots is usually not ignored by law enforcement. It is rare for arrest/prosecution not to occur. Sometimes good and practical reasons stand in the way.
  • Minor drug infractions, on the other hand, result in the imprisonment and destruction of the lives of millions of mostly black people, cruel, unjust, expensive, and unnecessary.
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Wise One
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Joined: 2007 Nov 02 09:33

Re: BANG !

Postby Wise One » 2017 Jul 13 14:15

The good guy with a gun theory ... debunked.

:coffee:
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Cannoneer
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Re: BANG !

Postby Cannoneer » 2017 Jul 16 14:10

I just went on line to check that out.
BS BS BS
go on line to gun facts and get the real facts.


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