Evolution, Is it Fact or Fiction

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Cannoneer
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Re: Evolution, Is it Fact or Fiction

Postby Cannoneer » 2017 Feb 07 00:51

According to a poll conducted by the Pew Research Center in 2009 33% of scientists believe in God and an additional 18% believe a higher power of some kind was behind creation.
That's 51%

And it's still true that evolution is just guesswork.

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Wise One
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Re: Evolution, Is it Fact or Fiction

Postby Wise One » 2017 Feb 07 11:00

Using "guesswork" to describe a disciplined field of study that has millions of real examples/data points, and rigorous analysis performed by thousands of scientists who have devoted careers to their work, is contemptuous and ignorant.

You might be interested in joining this organization. You'll be right at home.

:coffee:
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Cannoneer
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Re: Evolution, Is it Fact or Fiction

Postby Cannoneer » 2017 Feb 07 12:53

Really? The Flat Earth Society. You really an over inflated pompous ass.

My point is even half of the worlds scientists are not sold on the idea that life just happened.

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Wise One
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Re: Evolution, Is it Fact or Fiction

Postby Wise One » 2017 Feb 07 15:10

Wait.

You dismissed the theory of evolution with contempt as "guesswork."

But now you've changed the subject to how life "happened."

Make up your mind.

The fact of biological evolution is established beyond any doubt, and a solid theory consistent with those facts exists.

How the first living cell came to be is, for the time being, unknown ... even though some pretty good clues are under investigation.

:coffee:
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Cannoneer
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Re: Evolution, Is it Fact or Fiction

Postby Cannoneer » 2017 Feb 07 21:36

I've changed nothing. Evolution is based on the premise that life came from nonlife in the form of one cell and grew from there into all of the life forms that ever existed.
However you are right in thinking that I hold the whole theory in contempt.
And have little regard for the thought processes of those who accept it as fact.
As to the flat earth society, I've seen the curve of the earth from on high. My pilots license number is 1576126 single engine land.
I can be just as insulting as you.

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Wise One
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Re: Evolution, Is it Fact or Fiction

Postby Wise One » 2017 Feb 08 14:44

Sorry, you're mistaken.

"Evolution" as used biology, refers to permanent changes carried on by descendents of the original living organism.
"Abiogenesis" is the spontaneous appearance of life from nonliving components.

:coffee:

PS. One cell is life. Most of the living cells on Earth are contained in unicellular organisms. Your body comprises ten times more non-human cells than human cells.
"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Cannoneer
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Re: Evolution, Is it Fact or Fiction

Postby Cannoneer » 2017 Feb 08 19:42

Abiogenesis is a relatively new I don't really want to call it a science but I guess I will. And It dosen't work either.

As for evolution, Darwin claimed it all started with a single cell. I'm only commenting on his claim. So what's your problem?

Evolution is still disputed by some very good minds.

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Wise One
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Re: Evolution, Is it Fact or Fiction

Postby Wise One » 2017 Feb 08 22:41

Cannoneer wrote:As for evolution, Darwin claimed it all started with a single cell. I'm only commenting on his claim. So what's your problem?

Again, I fear you may not have studied what really happened. If Charles Darwin said such a thing, it's news to me. Can you corroborate that allegation with a reference?

It is correct that almost everybody now thinks of biological evolution in just that way, but that's because later scientists built on Darwin's initial ideas to construct a more comprehensive and accurate theory.

:coffee:
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Cannoneer
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Re: Evolution, Is it Fact or Fiction

Postby Cannoneer » 2017 Feb 09 10:27

No, checked on it and Darwin is not credited with saying how life began. So since you claim to be a scientist what would be your best guess?

One other question to you. Do you know of any real evidence that one species became another species?

DNA would suggest that procreation begets it's own kind and the small changes that you have mentioned would be worthless to any species unless they were beneficial and would not be passed along for several generations.

Evolution has far more questions than answers and cannot be thought of as anything more than speculation to anyone who uses their head for anything more than a hatrack.

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Wise One
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Re: Evolution, Is it Fact or Fiction

Postby Wise One » 2017 Feb 09 12:39

Cannoneer wrote:So since you claim to be a scientist what would be your best guess?
My best guess: First, Sun formed out of a gravitationally collapsing cloud of gas and dust about 4.5 billion years ago, and Earth formed from part of the leftover residue of that cloud along with the other planets. Second, conditions became favorable for the appearance of the first single-cell life about 500 million years later. How and why one-cell organisms formed spontaneously from non-living building blocks is still a mystery. After the appearance of the first single-cell life, we were off to the evolutionary races.

Cannoneer wrote:Do you know of any real evidence that one species became another species?
There are Millions of pieces of evidence for accumulating changes in life with time. Please get this straight, it's crucial. We have NEVER, and will NEVER, see an INDIVIDUAL transform from one species to another. It never happens. What happens is that tiny DNA changes, most imperceptible, accumulate over many thousands of generations. At some point the accumulated changes become so great that HUMANS say, "Aha, that looks like a new species to me." It is a HUMAN JUDGMENT that has nothing to do with the organism itself as it slowly evolves over the generations. And finally, most dead organisms decay and are lost forever; the fossil record captures only a tiny sample of all the generations that have existed, but that sample is large enough to figure out much of what happened.
This excellent documentary give a clear explanation of why we are certain that some of our ancestors were fish. We had many other ancestors too. Please watch it with an open mind.

Cannoneer wrote:... small changes that you have mentioned would be worthless to any species unless they were beneficial and would not be passed along for several generations.
Almost. They are passed on to EVERY generation that survives. Most changes are not beneficial, or even harmful, so they are weeded out as individuals carrying them find themselves at a competitive disadvantage and die prior to reproducing. Only the ones useful to multigenerational survival persist in the DNA that is passed on.

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Cannoneer
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Re: Evolution, Is it Fact or Fiction

Postby Cannoneer » 2017 Feb 10 10:44

Further research leads me to believe that Darwin suggested life started with a simple single cell.
However in order to confirm this I'm going to need to find a copy of his book the origin of life.

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Wise One
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Re: Evolution, Is it Fact or Fiction

Postby Wise One » 2017 Feb 10 11:09

Good.

Here it is ... when you find it, let us know.

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Cannoneer
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Re: Evolution, Is it Fact or Fiction

Postby Cannoneer » 2017 Feb 11 09:39

Still can't find where Darwin said it, but you did a couple of posts ago.

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Wise One
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Re: Evolution, Is it Fact or Fiction

Postby Wise One » 2017 Feb 11 12:44

No, I said
Wise One wrote:Again, I fear you may not have studied what really happened. If Charles Darwin said such a thing, it's news to me. Can you corroborate that allegation with a reference?
It is correct that almost everybody now thinks of biological evolution in just that way, but that's because later scientists built on Darwin's initial ideas to construct a more comprehensive and accurate theory.

I have never heard anybody say that Darwin conceived of evolution extending as far back as when Earth had only unicellular life. He was concerned with large and recent creatures (like the finches of the Galapagos Islands).

But maybe he did, tell us if you find it. I can't.

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nudgewink
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Re: Evolution, Is it Fact or Fiction

Postby nudgewink » 2017 Mar 05 10:33

Sacha Baron Cohen tried to pull Donald Trump's leg. He didn't bite.

Instead, Trump exaggerated the facts of human evolution a hundredfold, claiming that people have been conducting business for "hundreds of millions of years."

People have only been around for about a million years. What a doofus.

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Wise One
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Re: Evolution, Is it Fact or Fiction

Postby Wise One » 2017 Apr 20 11:50

This is a good explanation of why a reasoned responses to Cannoneer's views on evolution have essentially no chance of succeeding.

In summary, providing facts and debunking falsehoods are a waste of time on anti-science religionists. Only emotional arguments stand any chance at all, and then only if emotional points somehow relate to their strange world-view.

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"If your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like Donald Trump."

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Juggler
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Re: Evolution, Is it Fact or Fiction

Postby Juggler » 2017 Apr 21 23:29

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